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Author Topic: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight and field [Redacted]  (Read 27616 times)

Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2021, 05:40:59 AM »

I will still just try to build a starbase and lure the ordos into it.

That's one way to do it  ;D

I've completed the Radiant Drone Battleship entry in the Vanilla [Redacted] Roster

Questions:
1) There's a weapon called "Guardian" in the radiant_Standard.variant file, I assume it's the Paladin PD system?
2)There's a hullmod called "fluxbreakers" in the radiant_Strike.variant file. What even is that
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 06:57:51 AM by Arcagnello »
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AcaMetis

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2021, 05:54:55 AM »

Quote
Questions:
1) There's a weapon called "Guardian" in the radiant_Standard.variant file, I assume it's the Paladin PD system?
2)There's a hullmod called "fluxbreakers" in the radiant_Strike.variant file. What even is that
1) Yes.
2) It's the internal ID name of Resistant Flux Conduits.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2021, 06:01:57 AM »

Quote
Questions:
1) There's a weapon called "Guardian" in the radiant_Standard.variant file, I assume it's the Paladin PD system?
2)There's a hullmod called "fluxbreakers" in the radiant_Strike.variant file. What even is that
1) Yes.
2) It's the internal ID name of Resistant Flux Conduits.

Thanks  :)

At least someone had the common sense of installing Resistant Flux Conduits on the Radiant.

On the Glimmer tough? Especially instead of something that'd be a lot more useful like Unstable Injector? Nah.

Addendum: Holy Ludd Vanilla Remnant variants are even worse than I imagined.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 06:57:38 AM by Arcagnello »
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Megas

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2021, 06:18:22 AM »

Paladin PD used to be Guardian PD until Alex added the cryosleeper Guardian AI ship in more recent releases.  I prefer the original name Guardian PD over Paladin PD.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2021, 06:57:25 AM »

Paladin PD used to be Guardian PD until Alex added the cryosleeper Guardian AI ship in more recent releases.  I prefer the original name Guardian PD over Paladin PD.

Hah, It's quite hilarious to see even vanilla itself renaming stuff within the game as new content gets added. There's a mod-introduced, capital-sized  midline battlecarrier that used to be called Champion which had to pick another name as 0.95a hit aswell  ;D

I've completed the Brilliant Droneship Cruiser entry in the "Vanilla [Redacted] Roster"

There actually isn't an Overridden Brilliant Setup in the starsector-core -> data -> variants -> remnants folder by the way. It must be Autofit doing something good once a century when the stars align. Either that or it's one of the 40ish mods stapled into SS that does it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 07:01:25 AM by Arcagnello »
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FastestDraw

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2021, 07:10:42 AM »

As a newer player who has never had problems (even when outnumbered and 0 officers), and also leaves my ships on autopilot while I go and grab a cup of tea, fielding lots of light carriers (condors) with a longbow and a khopesh each works great. Usually flagship is a mora with heavy armour & I replace pilum LRMS with more anhilator rocket pods or sabot SRMS on the carriers.

The important part is the fighter wings. 10 deployment points for two wings is really good - most of the time the PD is too busy shooting the missilespam to hit fighters so they get to reload. ~48 sabots and 48 rocket barrages fired into the same clump of ships seems to wear down most stuff, and fighters don't seem to have the 'we ran out of missiles' problem that the actual misile racks have.

Only problem I've had is forgetting to pack crew to make up for fighter losses, but a civie transport alongside a fuel tanker isn't expensive, and the condor seems to show up in most black markets.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2021, 07:22:49 AM »

As a newer player who has never had problems (even when outnumbered and 0 officers), and also leaves my ships on autopilot while I go and grab a cup of tea, fielding lots of light carriers (condors) with a longbow and a khopesh each works great. Usually flagship is a mora with heavy armour & I replace pilum LRMS with more anhilator rocket pods or sabot SRMS on the carriers.

The important part is the fighter wings. 10 deployment points for two wings is really good - most of the time the PD is too busy shooting the missilespam to hit fighters so they get to reload. ~48 sabots and 48 rocket barrages fired into the same clump of ships seems to wear down most stuff, and fighters don't seem to have the 'we ran out of missiles' problem that the actual misile racks have.

Only problem I've had is forgetting to pack crew to make up for fighter losses, but a civie transport alongside a fuel tanker isn't expensive, and the condor seems to show up in most black markets.

I'm actually surprised carrier spam can be viable against remnants in 0.95. Have you tried putting officers with Elite Missile Spec and Systems Expertise on the Condors so that they spam Pilums like nothing else? It's pretty good if you also have ECCM!

Addendum: I would even consider installing a mod called "Rebalanced Pilums" if you wanted to try that, but it would only really make Pilums get there faster with decreased handling.

Edit: Do you have a screenshot of your fleet comp and Mora/Condor setups? I may very well feature them (along with a mention of you) when I start covering viable, Vanilla Fleet comps and tactics.

Edit 2: Welcome to the forum by the way, FastestDraw! Stick around with us at the Local Bar sometimes!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 07:25:50 AM by Arcagnello »
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FastestDraw

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2021, 07:31:23 AM »

I'll consider it, but honestly spending 3 more OP on more rockets seems fine - the AI is standofish enough that it only really hits the guys that charge, and thats usually when they should fire. Pop in any officer with cautious and pray. Eccm is cool when I've found it and remember to fit it to the ships, but I honestly didnt' bother optimising beyond 'can I save enough points for improved engines' once I stopped having trouble. Still trying to figure out if moving at burn 11 is worth it.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2021, 07:53:17 AM »

I'll consider it, but honestly spending 3 more OP on more rockets seems fine - the AI is standofish enough that it only really hits the guys that charge, and thats usually when they should fire. Pop in any officer with cautious and pray. Eccm is cool when I've found it and remember to fit it to the ships, but I honestly didnt' bother optimising beyond 'can I save enough points for improved engines' once I stopped having trouble. Still trying to figure out if moving at burn 11 is worth it.

Looking forward to it, fellow Starfarer! Good luck on finishing your (first?) 0.95a RC15 campaign :)

Applied some polish, corrected some syntax and added a few more sentences overall to the first guide segment of the OP.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 07:57:03 AM by Arcagnello »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2021, 07:58:05 AM »

Paladin PD used to be Guardian PD until Alex added the cryosleeper Guardian AI ship in more recent releases.  I prefer the original name Guardian PD over Paladin PD.

Hah, It's quite hilarious to see even vanilla itself renaming stuff within the game as new content gets added. There's a mod-introduced, capital-sized  midline battlecarrier that used to be called Champion which had to pick another name as 0.95a hit aswell  ;D

I've completed the Brilliant Droneship Cruiser entry in the "Vanilla [Redacted] Roster"

There actually isn't an Overridden Brilliant Setup in the starsector-core -> data -> variants -> remnants folder by the way. It must be Autofit doing something good once a century when the stars align. Either that or it's one of the 40ish mods stapled into SS that does it.

Any mod can inject new variants to generating pool by adding the variant in the variant folder, then go to world/default_fleet_role.json or something in that line to addend the corresponding variant with its respective weight, so they can spawn in the wild.

And yes I did consider adding a nasty brilliant variant in one of my mods but later decided not to because holy ludd remnant LPCs are so weak.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2021, 08:34:13 AM »

Any mod can inject new variants to generating pool by adding the variant in the variant folder, then go to world/default_fleet_role.json or something in that line to addend the corresponding variant with its respective weight, so they can spawn in the wild.

And yes I did consider adding a nasty brilliant variant in one of my mods but later decided not to because holy ludd remnant LPCs are so weak.

Question time!
1)Do mods just aiming to add new variants of vanilla ships have a variant file within the mod folder itself, or does it actually edit them into the starsector core file itself upon the game booting up?
2)If so, Do I have to be wary about variants folder in the starsector core file being  from mods? Does the specific variant have the fact it's from a mod written somewhere?
3)How many variants can a ship potentially have at most?
4)Can a mod bully the vanilla variants into not appearing by setting their respective weight to 0?
5)Is there any way for a mod to try and give specific variants of a Remnant ship an AI core with specific skills, or are AI officers always coming in with randomized skill picks?

I'm also curious to see your nastry Brilliant variant by the way, we could do some brainstorming  ;)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 08:48:16 AM by Arcagnello »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2021, 08:50:34 AM »

Any mod can inject new variants to generating pool by adding the variant in the variant folder, then go to world/default_fleet_role.json or something in that line to addend the corresponding variant with its respective weight, so they can spawn in the wild.

And yes I did consider adding a nasty brilliant variant in one of my mods but later decided not to because holy ludd remnant LPCs are so weak.

Question time!
1)Does a mod aiming to add new variants of vanilla ships have a variant folder within the mod folder itself, or does it actually edit them into the starsector core file itself upon the game booting up?
2)If so, Do I have to be wary about variants folder in the starsector core file being  from mods? Does the specific variant have the fact it's from a mod qritten somewhere?
3)How many variants can a ship potentially have at most?
4)Can a mod bully the vanilla variants into not appearing by setting their respective weight to 0?
5)Is there any way for a mod to try and give specific variants of a Remnant ship an AI core with specific skills, or are AI officers always coming in with randomized skill picks?

I'm also curious to see your nastry Brilliant variant by the way, we could do some brainstorming  ;)
1) They add it in (mod)/data/(whatever) and the game automatically merges all these assets on launching the game. In fact, anything in the mod folder will be seen as merging to starsector-core folder.
2) Look into mods
3) Effectively infinite. There is a parameter “goal variant” that dictates if it shows in default autofit selection but it has nothing to do with AI fleet generation.
4) A good mod try not to replace vanilla files so it’s not possible to reduce existing variant to 0. However, it can assign ridiculous spawn weight to a certain variant, so large that other variants are virtually impossible to spawn. Which imo would be as bad as directly replacing vanilla file.
5) AI officers generate by observing the fit but I didn’t fully dig into the officer generation. It’s quite complicated tbh.
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2021, 09:15:47 AM »

1) They add it in (mod)/data/(whatever) and the game automatically merges all these assets on launching the game. In fact, anything in the mod folder will be seen as merging to starsector-core folder.
2) Look into mods
3) Effectively infinite. There is a parameter “goal variant” that dictates if it shows in default autofit selection but it has nothing to do with AI fleet generation.
4) A good mod try not to replace vanilla files so it’s not possible to reduce existing variant to 0. However, it can assign ridiculous spawn weight to a certain variant, so large that other variants are virtually impossible to spawn. Which imo would be as bad as directly replacing vanilla file.
5) AI officers generate by observing the fit but I didn’t fully dig into the officer generation. It’s quite complicated tbh.
Thanks again!
1) I see, that does make an awful amount of sense now that I think about it!
2) Will do, I'm definetly going to get some new refit ideas from what people add in as additional vanilla ship variants.
3)Very, very good to know.
4)I was so blinded by my rage towards a Radiant setup using Locusts or another one using Advanced Optics swelling up the need of purging them from the sector at large that I did not realize it would be...uh...rude and hamfisted.
5)I can guess it is complicated, too bad!
Moar Questions!
1)Do you know of any mod successfully pulling off some Officer selection shenanigans?
2)Has Alex ever talked about how SS picks Officer Skills for the ships in AI fleets?

Addendum: You've teased me with the mention of a Brilliant setup you even described as Nasty, you can't leave me hanging like that  :P

I mean, it couldn't possibly be filthier than an Overridden variant using Heavy Machineguns, an Autopulse Laser, two Antimatter Blasters, an Ion Pulser plus Front Shield Conversion and Extended Mags, maybe even with enough room left to fill that lonely medium missile slot with a Sabot Pod, altough I'd really like to slap in Solar Shielding and Hardened Shields in instead but I don't think there's space for the latter unless we start integrating Hullmods.

Edit: did some math on a small sheet of paper for the "Assault" Brilliant Variant I mentioned above.

Ship Addition        /OP Cost /OP Spent/OP Remaning
                            /              /               /
Safety Overrides  /45         /45           /95
AP Laser              /20         /65           /75
2x HV MG             /20         /85           /55
2x AM Blaster      /18         /103         /37
1x Ion Pulser      /11         /114         /26
1x Sabot Pod      /10         /124         /16
Hardened Subs   /15        /139         /1

Expanded mags can't be fit into the ship unless we cut either the Sabot Pod or Hardened Susbsystems. The ship has a really high 540 second PPT but not installing H. Subs on Overridden ships just does not feel right. AM Blasters would be firing in linked mode.

Then again, cutting H. Subs would allow for both Expanded Magazines (7OP) and Shield Conversion: Front (9OP) which would have it perfectly fit at a clean 140 Ordinance points.

Hm. Food for thought.

What? Is anyone going to tell me I forgot about the hangar bay? I'd just give it a Mining Pod befitting such a useless appendice on the best overridden ship in the game right behind the Aurora. Heh.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 09:53:08 AM by Arcagnello »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2021, 10:11:02 AM »

How about downsize the large to use ion pulser and slap in the extended mag?

Also that’s a bit kinetic overkill, I’d give it harpoon or annihilator instead of sabot.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 10:18:34 AM by Sutopia »
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Arcagnello

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Re: [0.95a-RC15] (To be) Exhaustive Guide on how to fight [Redacted]
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2021, 10:18:43 AM »

How about downsize the large to use ion pulser and slap in the extended mag?

I did consider it, but ultimately decided to not underfit any weapon mount to keep it in line with all other Vanilla ship variants. It would probably work better tough.
Autopulse laser was mostly put there as the cheapest, hard flux dealing burst type Large Energy weapon that also scaled with Expanded Magazines.
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