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Author Topic: the #1 reason I don't play this game  (Read 17935 times)

Thaago

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2021, 09:44:47 PM »

I have a brief recollection of entering a sim of a ship from the refit screen then hitting autopilot ignores the personality of that ship (treating it as if it were a player commanded ship because its the ship the player is currently flying). Is that still the case?
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Deshara

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2021, 09:50:25 PM »

handed it over to my reckless officer and, well...

There is no officer on the ship.

not on that one, I did that in my actual playthru with mods then removed the mods & re-created the scenario in the Random Battle mission sim to confirm that this wasnt a mod issue. Reckless officer does the same thing. P sure I mentioned all of this, sorry if that wasnt clear enough

"A 1v1 with an enemy that can't really hurt it" - that's practically impossible for it to determine, right?

... Can it not? I've never confirmed this before; a lasher pursuing a fleeing buffalo, can it not tell that it's not chasing, say, another lasher or something? I didn't know that.

RE: the rest of it; that makes a lot of sense. It genuinely helps to just show footage of what its doing so it can confirmed that the problem is not the game but my expectations
I think, I just remember that the AI used to knife-fight (to the extent that this community came up with a name for it) if that was all you gave it to the point that my go-to comp whenever a frigate has a pair of light ballistic mounts is dual MG's on one mount & vulcan on its mirror mount, & I'm not 100% sure abt this & I'm planning to check whether this is false memories but I think the AI used to armor-tank when it was called for (I spent a long time testing what a lasher will do when outmatched in 2017). I get why they wouldn't anymore tho, back then the game was an arcade shooter where every battle was It for the losing side & it's just not that game anymore. Just a hard transition for me to make, having had the old playstyle ingrained in me as hard as it was. A playstyle that used to be viable to the point that it was the only way u knew how to play, becoming not-viable but the tools it used still being there feels a lot like that game has been broken.
Plus, a big part of it is probably that I just seem to expect the combat to go faster than it does. It's hard to tell how much of it is down to the pace of the game changing now that fleets have a need to be more conservative, and how much this comes down to me having recently gotten really into SC2 coop mode playing zagara the low supply limit & only suicide wave units where the viable playstyle is to maintain a 200+ APA spawning 150 zerglings at a time where the only limiting factor is how quickly you can crash your wall of flesh & claws into the enemy & kill your army off to make room for the next wave. Might download 0.7 to compare for scientific purposes

thanks for putting up with my whining, Alex!

one last thought before I put this thread behind me; I do find it interesting that now that the game has plenty of options to mitigate the loss of low-value ships, from base ship recovery to industrial skills to recovery-guaranteeing hullmods, that the game now suffers from a severe lack of a way to have your ships behave as if their loss is expected and/or acceptable. As-is I would never run a hulk fleet campaign just bc my ships are already piloting themselves so cautiously. I think, if there was a hullmod that guaranteed the ship was recoverable but instead of making it more survivable made it less survivable by making it much more willing to face-tank to turn its remaining armor into free shield to apply pressure, I'd use it to do hulk playthrus


OH it just clicked in my head!! I'm playing a kite slinging extreme anti-armor loadout, waiting for my fleet to Do Work so I can swoop in & assist, while my fleet is waiting for the player to Do Work so I can swoop in & assist. The game expects me to be piloting the strongest ship in my fleet with a generalized enough loadout that I can always lead the flow of battle, & I'm piloting the tiniest ship in my fleet with such a specialized loadout that I am so incapable of leading the flow of battle in a way that it forces me to sit outside of the battle, and the AI just isn't aggressive enough to carry battles without me like that (shy of just fighting enemies too weak to fight back). Makes sense; the game just isn't built to use a kite as my flagship (anymore), its like getting mad at Starcraft for not being playable only turtling in ur first base & never expanding just bc thats how u play the campaign, except that SC having that issue is the fault of the campaign being designed badly whereas SS is just bc something that used to be viable but shouldn't have been & just isnt anymore
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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2021, 10:42:56 PM »

What's your point then? If you wanted to force the Brawler to kill the Mule with the given weapons (HMG, DF, 2xBreach SRMs) it is doable. If you wanted "balanced combat ship capable of dishing out each type of damage" while omitting the energy but including the frag it is also doable. Your video shows only just how bad your variant is. Try this for a change:

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Deshara

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2021, 11:58:00 PM »

oh yeah, much better
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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2021, 12:32:18 AM »

Is this some kind of a bad joke? You changed the Mule variant, didn't pick the officer and didn't install the Hardened shields or changed the flux capacity. Are you actually trying to swindle me?
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Deshara

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2021, 12:44:00 AM »

idk what to tell u bro its a reckless officer (ive since pulled the thumper off & swapped it for 4 AC's) lmfao https://imgur.com/a/mjz0lS2
if u think i've, like, somehow doctored that video(?) feel free to upload a youtube video of your own video of it working. & sure, I clicked the wrong mule, but I know for a fact selecting the correct mule wont make the difference because HMG + Thumper + Breachers against the kittenmule was the first thing I tried on this brawler & it did the exact same thing
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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2021, 12:47:09 AM »

Right now you are not expected to say anything. Provide the video with the given Brawler variant commanded by the officer with the given skill set against the Mule variant represented in your video on the previous page. That's all.
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Deshara

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2021, 12:50:47 AM »

so ur saying that if I take the time to farm an officer with that exact set of skills the thumper-HMG brawler will work? Because that sounds like "the thumper-HMG brawler does not work" but with extra steps

edit: nvm I found the officer. Here's the vid https://www youtube com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 12:57:00 AM by Deshara »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2021, 01:03:07 AM »

The AI bases decisions about closing in/backing off on friendly and enemy flux levels, so if you build a loadout with very little ability raise enemy flux at range, it's not surprising that it struggles. It might do better in a fleet situation where it can take advantage of opportunities created by other ships, but it will not do well in 1v1s. The video looks like exactly what I would expect: It takes a ton of damage on approach before it gets into the effective range of its only kinetic damage because it is grossly outranged, so it's flux is always too high and it never commits. Maybe if you put a reckless officer in it, it might commit to getting in range, but it would probably just die if it committed, so I think the AI is being pretty reasonable given the situation it is in.

The best 1v1 brawler weapon combo is probably 2x HVD or HVD + mauler, but I almost never use that ship so I can't say for sure. That's what I would use if I had to put one in my fleet though.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2021, 01:05:26 AM »

Right now you are not expected to say anything. Provide the video with the given Brawler variant commanded by the officer with the given skill set against the Mule variant represented in your video on the previous page. That's all.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, at least not anymore, but why would he need to pick that specific variant with that specific officer?
What would that prove even if it worked? That there's one perfect set of circumstances that gets the job done?

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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2021, 01:08:39 AM »

so ur saying that if I take the time to farm an officer with that exact set of skills the thumper-HMG brawler will work? Because that sounds like "the thumper-HMG brawler does not work" but with extra steps

edit: nvm I found the officer. Here's the vid https://www youtube com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

I'm saying that you, sir, are a fraud.
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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2021, 01:09:45 AM »

Right now you are not expected to say anything. Provide the video with the given Brawler variant commanded by the officer with the given skill set against the Mule variant represented in your video on the previous page. That's all.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, at least not anymore, but why would he need to pick that specific variant with that specific officer?
What would that prove even if it worked? That there's one perfect set of circumstances that gets the job done?

Because certain individual purposefully tinkering with the evidence to prove its agenda.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2021, 01:14:50 AM »

Right now you are not expected to say anything. Provide the video with the given Brawler variant commanded by the officer with the given skill set against the Mule variant represented in your video on the previous page. That's all.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, at least not anymore, but why would he need to pick that specific variant with that specific officer?
What would that prove even if it worked? That there's one perfect set of circumstances that gets the job done?

Because certain individual purposefully tinkering with the evidence to prove its agenda.

Well, so are you if you're limiting it to a specific hullmod and officer.
Not that I really care, my point was that the Brawler should just shrug it off and armor-tank regardless of the loadout, but Alex already explained why that doesn't happen.
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Lucky33

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2021, 01:17:28 AM »

Right now you are not expected to say anything. Provide the video with the given Brawler variant commanded by the officer with the given skill set against the Mule variant represented in your video on the previous page. That's all.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, at least not anymore, but why would he need to pick that specific variant with that specific officer?
What would that prove even if it worked? That there's one perfect set of circumstances that gets the job done?

Because certain individual purposefully tinkering with the evidence to prove its agenda.

Well, so are you if you're limiting it to a specific hullmod and officer.
Not that I really care, my point was that the Brawler should just shrug it off and armor-tank regardless of the loadout, but Alex already explained why that doesn't happen.

To prove that Brawler can do it you need only single case. However it is not that only this given variant is usable.
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Deshara

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Re: the #1 reason I don't play this game
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2021, 01:22:44 AM »

The best 1v1 brawler weapon combo is probably 2x HVD or HVD + mauler, but I almost never use that ship so I can't say for sure. That's what I would use if I had to put one in my fleet though.

I mean, at that point were just saying that any gun with less than 1k range isn't viable then, arent we?


I don't really have a dog in this fight, at least not anymore, but why would he need to pick that specific variant with that specific officer?
What would that prove even if it worked? That there's one perfect set of circumstances that gets the job done?

You are 100% correct, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the faulty arguments he makes, he doesn't actually believe any of what he's saying, he just did the redditor thing of seeing someone criticizing a videogame (about something that the dev has literally replied to & admitted is true, but is there for a reason) & decided its his job to personally stop that, & is pursuing that goal by suicide bombing the conversation -- sprint in & scream that they JUST ARENT PLAYING AS GOOD AS ME and that if we were playing AS GOOD AS ME then we wouldnt be having any issues, and when presented with video evidence that he is wrong he just switches to accusing me of faking the video when the space between his loadout suggestion & my video was just a few minutes lmfao
he doesn't care about any of what he says, he's just here to make a fool of himself so that anybody passing by who sees his comments but isn't emotionally invested enough to look into the matter might walk away with the impression that this is a contested issue, when it isn't.
And, if he can't do that, then at least he can try to get the thread locked so people will stop having this discussion that he doesnt like
They used to pass around manifestos on how to do this tactic & how to train people in your community to do it too on 4-chan & its run-offs. The one question is... why is he doing it here???
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I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then
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