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[Megas]

If Hardened Shields were weakened, I would hope it would be cheaper, maybe on par with the 5/10/15/25 DP cost.

Anything worth more than 5/10/15/25 are prime candidates for s-mods.  Augmented Engines, Expanded Missile Racks, Heavy Armor, current Hardened Shields, maybe Reinforced Bulkheads (on capitals).

Kind of wish Expanded Deck Crew was cheaper.  Currently, it is still a hefty ITU-like tax on carriers, despite being weakened to 40% of its power.  Without skills, Expanded Deck Crew is all the carrier has, and that alone is not enough.

That said I'm still not sure whether Herons or Astrals are worth using either. Carriers just ate so many nerfs and want player skills that conflict with other important stuff (Carrier Group over Crew Training? In what universe?) that it seems better to just cut them out entirely and focus on finding a replacement. Maybe focussing on a carrier fleet would be more effective, but mixing fleets seems very much against the meta this patch.

Maybe make carriers warship-lite like they were before 0.8a.

[Alex]

(Carrier Group over Crew Training? In what universe?)

(That should become easier to manage in the future. But, right, I'll hold off on talking about skills changes until I'm actually ready to go more in-depth. I'll just say that the *goal* is to have carriers be very useful, but in small numbers, and to have that usefulness drop off (not off a cliff, just so they're considerably less efficient than in small numbers) if you go for a full carrier fleet.)

[Wyvern]

... hmm. Right, yes, that's (not always wanting racks) kind of what I meant by having the most expensive mods be specialized. Still, this is a good point. On the other hand, it seems like a 10% Hardened Shields would be way too good if it was the same cost-tier as Flux Distributor... and going below 10% would just feel bad.

Huh. I (obviously) don't agree there - the cost tier of the flux distributor is only slightly cheaper than the current hardened shields - and the current hardened shields is 25% reduced damage, not 10%. I picked the values I did specifically to be something that I'd use sometimes-but-not-all-the-time.

[Harmful Mechanic]

I think one of the biggest issues with Hardened Shields is actually just that it can stack with Heavy Armor, and I think it should be more of an either-or for tanky ship builds.

What I'd like to see is Hardened Shields and Heavy Armor be mutually exclusive, and each have an additional hullmod (existing or new) that can only be installed along with the parent hullmod.

[EclipseRanger]

Fair enough! (The Drover, there may be some sort of bug that's currently tanking its performance - I forget the details, but I seem to recall seeing some report. It's written down in a TODO sheet so I'll have a look eventually.)

Replacement rates were tanking because Reserve Deployment losses counted as actual losses, or some such, IIRC? Of course that combined with the Remnant LPC nefs, carrier nerfs and the (since fixed, I believe?) bug where shielded fighters would stay permanently overloaded make Drovers a thoroughly underwhelming package.

That said I'm still not sure whether Herons or Astrals are worth using either. Carriers just ate so many nerfs and want player skills that conflict with other important stuff (Carrier Group over Crew Training? In what universe?) that it seems better to just cut them out entirely and focus on finding a replacement. Maybe focussing on a carrier fleet would be more effective, but mixing fleets seems very much against the meta this patch.

When I first played the latest version I thought carriers were dead as well, though I've moderated my opinion since then. The biggest impact to me is the dearth of carrier-relevant skills; to really build a fleet around them you'll need some battle-carrier fits mixed with pure carrier fits. Haven't tried that yet so I can't speak to it, though.

After extensive experimentation and practice with carriers of all kinds,loadouts and formations,I 'd say carriers are in a relatively good spot right now,if a bit underwhelming.I can definitely rely on my carriers to vaporise up to heavy cruisers with no chance of escape and they can do it multiple times in a fight.

The biggest issue with carriers,IMO,is the lack of finer control,especially on the AI's side.AI Drovers IMMEDIATELY use their system when they start a bombing run even against targets they can't alpha strike where they would be better off using it right after the first bomber wave.Likewise,the player can't easily coordinate his carrier group to focus fire on a specific location of say,a battlestation.I think the addition of something as simple as control over the formation of bombers would make carrier a much more appealing choice for many players,though perhaps the newer Skill touchup will solve that problem in other ways.

[AcaMetis]

(Carrier Group over Crew Training? In what universe?)

(That should become easier to manage in the future. But, right, I'll hold off on talking about skills changes until I'm actually ready to go more in-depth. I'll just say that the *goal* is to have carriers be very useful, but in small numbers, and to have that usefulness drop off (not off a cliff, just so they're considerably less efficient than in small numbers) if you go for a full carrier fleet.)

So a captain that mixes in carriers with a balanced fleet will have great carriers, but a captain that specializes in carriers will have (relatively) inefficient ones? I can see the logic RE: gameplay balance, but beyond that I'm not sure how that's supposed to make sense.

As for carriers being useful, one thing I would like looked at is the whole "being a fighter pilot is basically a fancier death sentence" aspect. I get that lives are cheap in the Persean Sector, just ask practically any pirate/pather controlled colony, but non-drone carriers effectively taxing me in money and extra OP (Recovery Shuttles, because OP is cheaper than money) to run them, in addition to usual the supply and fuel costs, is...well, as someone who's a greedy penny-pincher when it comes to fleet logistics that means non-drones are off the table. And drones means either Wasps (garbage, but they're bodies that can be put on the field) or Remnants (have to fight to get them first, and after the nerfs they're not really impressive beyond their lack of upkeep).

[Burvjradzite]

All that hardened shields talks reminded me of shield mechanics presented in other games. Like Freelancer or Star Conflict, there type of shields determine that sort of damage it can absorb. Graviton, positron, molecular shield are a bit outdated terminology of shield type and do not suitable for starsector, but the mechanic itself (-% damage from HE type and from recent update solar shielding too -% energy) are already present. So if the main problem of hardened shield being auto s-modded because it's too much value for the cost, why not to divide hardened shields into multiple shield-mods: 25 vs HE, 25 vs Energy, 25 vs kinetic. For a frigate hardened shield is 8 OP and this shield mods should cost around 3 OP. Obviously high-tech and some mid/low tech frigates will try to take them all, but other low-tech ships will take only HE variation of such mod because they rely on shields mostly for evading this type of damage, while high tech ships tries to evade any damage. That way you can not only adjust frigates/larger ships balance, but high tech/low tech as well.

[Sarissofoi]

Small question.
How far away is the ship patch release?

[Arcagnello]

Small question.
How far away is the ship patch release?

I've stalked followed Alex's comments on the forum and, judging by ones like this one

Thank you! And, yeah, for the next update - 0.95.1a, which is basically a huge tweaks, polish, fixes, etc pass over the current version.

Suggests there's a pretty solid patch-note written already. It should not be long. Then again we might want to not ask him too much or the legends may very well be true and he purposefully delays Patch Day for another 24 hours every time he's asked when the new update releases 

[Sarissofoi]

he purposefully delays Patch Day

Can a man who likes cats can be THAT EVIL?
I don't think so.

Spoiler

Don't prove me wrong.

[close]

[halloween20]

Small question.
How far away is the ship patch release?

I've stalked followed Alex's comments on the forum and, judging by ones like this one

Thank you! And, yeah, for the next update - 0.95.1a, which is basically a huge tweaks, polish, fixes, etc pass over the current version.

Suggests there's a pretty solid patch-note written already. It should not be long. Then again we might want to not ask him too much or the legends may very well be true and he purposefully delays Patch Day for another 24 hours every time he's asked when the new update releases 

he might have a bot runing searching new posts for specific used words/word combination to automaticaly add 24h

[Arcagnello]

he purposefully delays Patch Day

Can a man who likes cats can be THAT EVIL?
I don't think so.

Spoiler

Don't prove me wrong.

[close]

I'm unsure on the validity of this concept, fellow human.
How does showing affection to a subspecies of animals which seems to particularly enjoy the act of toying with helpless prey before killing it and/or leaving it half eaten over your door mat describe an individual as "not evil"?
I would certainly find this statement more agreeable in the case of another Homo Sapiens Sapiens being in the possession of a pet Gaboon Viper instead;  another inferior biological organism thats as much if not more beautiful than the aforementioned feline and only decides to end another being's life if it feels threatened or hungry.
There's also the important added bonus of this particular human showing so much love towards its subservient animal at home that its willing to accept the fact said Gaboon Viper has one of the most sudden and fastest strikes in the animal kingdom and possesses 3 to 5 inch fangs filled to the brim with venom strong enough to warrant immediate amputation of the struck limb even in the possession of an antidote.

Alright. I've done enough AI-Posting today 

[th3boodlebot]

very cool!  i love the changes to burn drive (it always annoyed me i couldnt stop) and the addition of the tempest system is GOLD.  i love the idea of putting unique systems wherever applicable

[Locklave]

Could some armor friendly hull mods get added that are geared to low tech? I mean we have a rather powerful mods to enhance shields on ships that already have the best shields. Give armor resistance traits or something. Some hull mods specifically designed to most benefit Low tech. Every hull mod seems to be Generalized or clearly just better for High tech and a lesser extent Midline.

I find the hull mod options for low tech rather crummy. Instead of buffing a strength it seems like it's always trying to compensate for a glaring shortcoming.

Please specifically consider removing the Auxiliary Thrusters hull mod and/or folding it into the ships that are being forced to pay for it as OP tax. Onslaught, Dominator and Enforcer specifically spring to mind. It's not helping matters for Low tech that it feels mandatory on these ships.

[Thaago]

Hmm, why does Enforcer need Auxiliary Thrusters? It has a decent turn rate and all its guns are turrets. Similarly I've never installed it on the Dominator or Onslaught so I don't think its an OP tax.