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Author Topic: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations  (Read 25730 times)

Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2021, 01:05:09 AM »

That's odd and sorry to hear it's not working for you. I will need some logs to see what's going on, as well as Starpocalypse version you are running. For faster debugging, you could message me on Starsector Discord.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.3.1 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2021, 01:31:53 AM »

Bug fix released - 1.3.1. Now contraband actually works.
Big thanks to PreConceptor who was the only person not to have noticed since release of 1.3.0 (3 months) but also to report it.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2021, 01:28:50 PM »

New update - 1.4.0 is out. Modularized the mod into Industry (adds patrol hqs, missing orbital stations, etc.) and Submarket (handles dmodding, weapon removal, etc) module. Each module can be disabled at will. Also added a new module - Engagements - which does a small reputation (less than one point) adjustment for factions related (both positively and negatively) to the fleets defeated by the player.
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Soñjer

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2021, 07:23:23 AM »

I really like this mod; it adds realistic difficulty, compared to other mods that adds pure gameplay/arcade difficulty.

One suggestion I would have is to overhaul the commission system:

- Reward activity (bigger fleet bounty in general, with extra for enemy factions, but less per month cash)
- Punish inactivity (must do X (3?) amount of missions per cycle, otherwise relations are tanked (-10?, scaling) until you're fired + big reputation penalty when going below 0)
- More content (exclusive/special missions for the player, more missions in general)

I know this is quite a bit of work, so you do you.

Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2021, 08:56:47 AM »

Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.
Good point.

@Thaago
This is probably refined enough to put into the 'Miscellaneous' section, right?
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2021, 01:12:11 PM »

Quote
- Reward activity (bigger fleet bounty in general, with extra for enemy factions, but less per month cash)

This is actually pretty easy to do. Unfortunately, vanilla bounty manager only has 11 levels (0-10), and it increases based on successful bounties. I don't see a way to make it harder, other than:
  • Advancing to the next level faster (kinda tedious to implement but doable)
  • Starting at higher, config defined level (instead of 0)
  • Starting at max level (10)

Rewriting bounty manager is outside the scope of this mod.

Quote
- Punish inactivity (must do X (3?) amount of missions per cycle, otherwise relations are tanked (-10?, scaling) until you're fired + big reputation penalty when going below 0)

Like this one. Added a note to add inactivity checker, e.g. commissioned faction will get angry at you if you do nothing to help their cause within a cycle. Adjustable, perhaps you need to gain 10 rep in a cycle. Tanking ends when you reach 100. Thinking how to make it easier for implementation / tracking here...

Quote
- More content (exclusive/special missions for the player, more missions in general)

Again, this feels like a great idea but outside the scope of this mod. I'd suggest getting the upcoming MagicBounties mod (in development), or visiting Discord and getting Bounties Extended mod from there.

Quote
Also, is there any reason you're not on the mod index ? Stumbled upon your mod in the mod board, it's a shame I didn't knew it before.

My oversight. This started as a proof-of-concept (and a bit of a joke) mod, and since has gained some traction. I simply forgot to add it there. I'll ask Thaago.

Thaago? Could I have this in Utilities section please?

Quote
This is probably refined enough to put into the 'Miscellaneous' section, right?

Technically it is a Utility mod, you can disable it at any time without breaking your save.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 01:14:47 PM by Jaghaimo »
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nepman

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2021, 04:31:56 AM »

First of all - thank you for the mod, a great complication of the game. Smuggling - sounds very interesting, and should encourage the player to lower the stability of worlds, or look for worlds with low stability to get some weapons / ships from the black market.
This led to some interesting gameplay changes - I started selling and throwing away weapons much less often - you never know what and when it will come in handy, and what and when you can find/buy it.
Much more often I began to think about recovering found ships in space. "This warship might not have been the best buy before, but now that there are no alternatives, it will do. "
There are potentially more interactions with pirates -- their bases are those rare sources of weapons and warships. Great!
Raids on stations and worlds for weapons have also become much more meaningful.

On the other hand there are a few tricky points
1. The Prism Port from Nex is still a legit place with the ability to buy not just weapons but rare and high quality weapons. I like Prism Port, it sells great ship modifications, but on the other hand it becomes one of the main places to buy quality ships for the fleet. One of the main if not the only one.
2. Selling weapons. It's forbidden and you can't buy weapons in the regular market, but you can sell them. This feels a little weird. Perhaps should add an interface similar to the interface with the transfer of AI cores to the administration of the station or planet? Perhaps a small monetary reward and a bit of reputation...
3. Small guns, at least to be able to protect a minimal ship. This is more about the ability to arm yourself minimally, to fight back the pirates. Following the logic - such strict regulation only encourages cooperation with the smugglers, perhaps add an intermediate arms market where the minimum reputation (0-10) player can buy a small gun? Nothing special, just a small machine gun per tanker... But then again, if we're talking about the strictest regulation, the mod does it right.
4. Not sure if this is implemented now - maybe should limit the sale of  space marines? Limit it to pirate stations, and military markets. Maybe some stations (like Tri-Tah) can sell mercenaries.


It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)

Oh, and the idea of slightly battered ships on sale looks great too. It makes the economics of the game a little more complex.

This mod in the mix with Rutheless sector, Second Wave really refreshes the game and makes it much more complex.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 04:37:24 AM by nepman »
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nepman

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2021, 02:24:08 AM »

It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)

Okay, in fact, the starsector opens up new, unknown sides all the time.
I found a trader of interesting things in the bar - that completely covers the offer I made.  ;D ;D
Thanks again for the mod - it looks very organic to the game.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2021, 03:15:02 AM »

First of all - thank you for the mod, a great complication of the game. Smuggling - sounds very interesting, and should encourage the player to lower the stability of worlds, or look for worlds with low stability to get some weapons / ships from the black market.
Glad you find it interesting. It is a niche mod after all.

This led to some interesting gameplay changes - I started selling and throwing away weapons much less often - you never know what and when it will come in handy, and what and when you can find/buy it.
Much more often I began to think about recovering found ships in space. "This warship might not have been the best buy before, but now that there are no alternatives, it will do. "
There are potentially more interactions with pirates -- their bases are those rare sources of weapons and warships. Great!
Raids on stations and worlds for weapons have also become much more meaningful.

Slap on my Stelnet mod, just disable Commodity and Market, and leave Storage enabled, and now you can easily check where your stashes of weapons are.

On the other hand there are a few tricky points
1. The Prism Port from Nex is still a legit place with the ability to buy not just weapons but rare and high quality weapons. I like Prism Port, it sells great ship modifications, but on the other hand it becomes one of the main places to buy quality ships for the fleet. One of the main if not the only one.
2. Selling weapons. It's forbidden and you can't buy weapons in the regular market, but you can sell them. This feels a little weird. Perhaps should add an interface similar to the interface with the transfer of AI cores to the administration of the station or planet? Perhaps a small monetary reward and a bit of reputation...
3. Small guns, at least to be able to protect a minimal ship. This is more about the ability to arm yourself minimally, to fight back the pirates. Following the logic - such strict regulation only encourages cooperation with the smugglers, perhaps add an intermediate arms market where the minimum reputation (0-10) player can buy a small gun? Nothing special, just a small machine gun per tanker... But then again, if we're talking about the strictest regulation, the mod does it right.
4. Not sure if this is implemented now - maybe should limit the sale of  space marines? Limit it to pirate stations, and military markets. Maybe some stations (like Tri-Tah) can sell mercenaries.

  • Prism Free Port is an odd ball really. It comes with High End seller which makes the Prism port THE Prism Port (and blueprint exchange dude). The High End seller comes with a huge price, which is fine. In my personal playthroughs I just disable Prism though.
  • This is tied to submarket implementation. I'd need to replace all submarkets with my custom ones, so that would make the mod incompatibile with Nex (which also does that). I'll have a second look at that though.
  • You are right, but implementing this in an easy and straightforward way might be tricky. Added to a list of things to look at.
  • Good point, should remove Marines from open and black markets (same logic as weapons so leave pirate and pather bases as is, with contraband happening based on stability elsewhere).

It's great that the mod is now pushing to find characters in bars that can sell you a warship for a low price, maybe it would be worth developing this idea, and add something like "Contact" that would offer different ships at some periodicity? (Just like with the head rewards - three levels of difficulty, three monetary rewards. Three different ships in different price ranges (maybe more expensive than usual, maybe beaten up)
I'd keep your eyes peeled on Bounties Expanded mod (currently Discord only), and potentially on some new mods that come up once bounty framework is added to MagicLib (and it becomes easier to implement those things). As for contacts, I've added it to my list.
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Yunru

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2021, 11:35:34 AM »

This is tied to submarket implementation. I'd need to replace all submarkets with my custom ones, so that would make the mod incompatibile with Nex (which also does that). I'll have a second look at that though.
It may not work, and it may have a tonne of unintended side-effects, but what if they were added to the illegal goods list for the various factions?

Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2021, 01:06:30 PM »

Will need to double-check, but this implies the check only happens for commodities (which weapons are not).
Code
	"illegalCommodities":[
"drugs",
"organs",
"hand_weapons",
"ai_cores",
],

I think the submarket plugin replacement might be the way to go. Basically, a delegate Submarket that takes the actual Submarket object, and it's plugin, delegates all calls to Submarket except getPlugin, which will return instead another delegate, this time of the original plugin which delegates all calls to the actual plugin except illegal checks (which will delegate calls, but if not illegal will additionally check weapons). A bit of a roundabout way of doing things, but will work with whatever implementation of submarket is currently in use (e.g. all mods).

Code
        MarketAPI market;// currently opened market (on dock, via listener)
        SubmarketAPI submarket = market.getSubmarket(Submarkets.SUBMARKET_OPEN);
        market.addSubmarket(new DelegatedSubmarket(submarket));// add delegated market
        market.removeSubmarket(Submarkets.SUBMARKET_OPEN);// remove normal open market

With delegate being something akin to:
Code
@RequiredArgsConstructor // lombok automatically makes constructor for all final properties
public class DelegatedSubmarket impements SubmarketAPI {
    @Delegate // lombok automatically makes a method for each method in SubmarketAPI that will call submarket.method(); ezpz
    private final  SubmarketAPI submarket;// original submarket implementation

    public SubmarketPlugin getPlugin() {
          return new DelegatedSubmarketPlugin(submarket.getPlugin());// this being just another delegate
    }
}

Plus reverse code for market closed (fetch original open market from the delegate). Basically a decorator pattern where we just change one behaviour of the original object.

Sadly, it will most likely not work despite being correct and compiling as Alex codes for concrete (obfuscated) implementations, and not for the exposed API interfaces (so my delegates will be missing methods / be incompatible).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 01:33:30 PM by Jaghaimo »
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slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2021, 01:41:11 PM »

Sadly, it will most likely not work despite being correct and compiling as Alex codes for concrete (obfuscated) implementations, and not for the exposed API interfaces (so my delegates will be missing methods / be incompatible).

Hopefully you luck out and Alex takes pity on this issue...
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2021, 02:38:15 PM »

@Jaghaimo
I found the post below in the Suggestions Forum. It strikes me as a good idea to make the sector economy become more alive and difficult at the same time. Do you think this is in line with your Starpocalypse mod?
Inhospitable Factions Should Embargo
If you are inhospitable with a faction, they won't give you docking clearance at their markets. The same principle should apply with market supply/demand so faction hostilities have clear and direct economic consequences.
For example, if a market demands 7 fuel, but is inhospitable or hostile with all 7+ fuel suppliers, they should get a shortage equal to their deficit.
Vice versa, if a supplier is inhospitable or hostile to every market that demands a good at their supply level, they should be stuck with a surplus.
[close]
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Vivelaraclette

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2021, 12:53:47 PM »

Amazing mod and a gift when mixed with ruthless sector ah ! The fact that you can't buy your precious warship and stuff like gauss canon on day 3 on a backwater open civilian market is great.

I agree with a previous comment that some light weapons should still be sold on civilian and maybe a bit more on the blackmarket but honestly, your work is already a refreshing experience for starsector

Regards
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.95a] Starpocalypse 1.4.0 - fortresses and regulations
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2021, 01:25:26 PM »

I agree with a previous comment that some light weapons should still be sold on civilian and maybe a bit more on the blackmarket but honestly, your work is already a refreshing experience for starsector
On the other hand, @Alex was talking about an Arms Dealer contact showing up with weapons and not just ships. That makes the balance of this mod a little bit more up in the air.
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