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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.  (Read 1051 times)

SonnaBanana

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Minimum should be 2, max should be 5.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2021, 12:26:03 AM »

More like between 4 - 7!  But I suspect that this will change in the future anyway, since agent structure in place now.  Still, I would like a better variety of events, have yet to pick a bar fight in-game yet and have to spend money to get bailed out, use an in-faction agent to get you loose (depends on agent reputation, maybe also agent location) or else "lose."  Whether or not the bail amount is reasonable I guess would depend on the faction and your relationship with said faction.  By "lose," I mean either blow X number of story points to talk your way out of jail or do the game's version of dying by GO TO JAIL.  DO NOT COLLECT $200..  IE, a soft reset... what the game does when you die anyway.

Bars in general need more flavor, I've been so underwhelmed by the bar experience that I have recently been half-tempted to just mod in a full poker simulator just for pirate/independent bars (prolly just stud/draw, coding Texas hold 'em prolly too difficult; not the actual coding of the game, but adding multiple different AI gambling "opponents" with varying skill levels for Texas Hold 'em requires a much more sophisticated AI for bluffing reasons, and is certainly beyond my current coding capabilities).  Not saying I will, just tempted.  Like seriously, why do I not have the option to slip the bartender a couple of bills to find the best "deal" option?  That and after a while, bar interactions are like events in Stellaris... you've seen them all, just the destination and maybe the requirements change.  But the rest of the text is literally the same (which is understandable, trying to randomize not only coherent sentences but coherent "conversations" is a huge coding undertaking; team level stuff at a minimum).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 12:27:59 AM by slowpersun »
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 01:33:22 AM »

Or we can just implement the idea (not mine) of contacts being capable of introducing the player to other contacts.
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ElPresidente

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2021, 02:31:07 AM »

Why are 99% of all bar missions utter garbage?

Spy sat deployments - garbage mission, annoying, difficult, pays terrible.
Marine raids of any kind - garbage, annoying, not worth it.
Smuggle drugs - garbage, quantities are always too small to be worth it
Tactical bombardment - only OK when it's agasint pirates or a lightly guarded planet.
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TJJ

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2021, 03:34:48 AM »

Or we can just implement the idea (not mine) of contacts being capable of introducing the player to other contacts.

++;

I agree, it's an excellent idea.
The first (and only) procedural implementation I've come across is in Star Traders: Frontiers.
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Megas

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2021, 05:46:57 AM »

Why are 99% of all bar missions utter garbage?

Spy sat deployments - garbage mission, annoying, difficult, pays terrible.
Marine raids of any kind - garbage, annoying, not worth it.
Smuggle drugs - garbage, quantities are always too small to be worth it
Tactical bombardment - only OK when it's agasint pirates or a lightly guarded planet.
Not to mention some of them sending a late-game hunter or revenge fleet (equivalent to 180k-220 bounty strength) to chase your fleet down for completing a 50k-80k job.  It is worse than named bounties, which already underpay for their threat level.
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AcaMetis

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 05:56:06 AM »

Why are 99% of all bar missions utter garbage?

Spy sat deployments - garbage mission, annoying, difficult, pays terrible.
Marine raids of any kind - garbage, annoying, not worth it.
Smuggle drugs - garbage, quantities are always too small to be worth it
Tactical bombardment - only OK when it's agasint pirates or a lightly guarded planet.
Not to mention some of them sending a late-game hunter or revenge fleet (equivalent to 180k-220 bounty strength) to chase your fleet down for completing a 50k-80k job.  It is worse than named bounties, which already underpay for their threat level.
Also the fact that at least the smuggling job, probably also the spy sat deployment jobs I would guess, spawns patrol fleets around your target that otherwise wouldn't be there. Quite immersion breaking to be honest, since as a...well, "veteran" is perhaps too strong a word. But as a player who knows Cruor never has patrols around it it's quite immersion breaking to take a job to smuggle stuff to there and suddenly, out of the ether, there is a patrol fleet ready to make that job you took thoroughly not worth the effort. You could explain it as the contact setting you up, you being the distraction rather than the actual smuggler or something along those lines, but as far as I know no such interaction exists.
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Megas

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 06:44:14 AM »

Bar missions that underpay worse than named bounties means such missions are always ignored.  Most random bar encounters are traps not worth doing.
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Realm

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2021, 12:42:39 PM »

Also the fact that at least the smuggling job, probably also the spy sat deployment jobs I would guess, spawns patrol fleets around your target that otherwise wouldn't be there. Quite immersion breaking to be honest, since as a...well, "veteran" is perhaps too strong a word. But as a player who knows Cruor never has patrols around it it's quite immersion breaking to take a job to smuggle stuff to there and suddenly, out of the ether, there is a patrol fleet ready to make that job you took thoroughly not worth the effort. You could explain it as the contact setting you up, you being the distraction rather than the actual smuggler or something along those lines, but as far as I know no such interaction exists.
This alone is the reason I stopped taking those missions. It just feels 'gamey' to have a patrol fleet that hugs the objective like nothing else matters.
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ElPresidente

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2021, 12:39:04 AM »

They are extra annoying to boot.
You either have to wait for something to distract them, or switch ships and come in with a super-small, supper-steathly fleet (and even that might not work)
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2021, 01:14:12 AM »

They are extra annoying to boot.
You either have to wait for something to distract them, or switch ships and come in with a super-small, supper-steathly fleet (and even that might not work)

At least the game allows you to accelerate time.  But yes, quite annoying to have to kill like almost a week waiting for some extra fleet to rotate counter-clockwise just right... still kinda wishing that the pip-squeak fleets someday get extra behavior code to avoid large BAMF fleets running dark and instead summon a larger fleet or merge with other small patrols.  But alas, prolly won't happen until at least 1.0.
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ElPresidente

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2021, 04:11:12 AM »

still kinda wishing that the pip-squeak fleets someday get extra behavior code to avoid large BAMF fleets running dark and instead summon a larger fleet or merge with other small patrols.  But alas, prolly won't happen until at least 1.0.

That is an excellent idea. And quite doable.

You already have a SpwanFleet command, you just need to find the small fleets nearby, have them all travel to one location, destroy/despawn them, and spawn a new fleet with FPs equal to the destroyed fleets total.
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IonDragonX

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2021, 10:49:28 AM »

still kinda wishing that the pip-squeak fleets someday get extra behavior code to avoid large BAMF fleets running dark and instead summon a larger fleet or merge with other small patrols.  But alas, prolly won't happen until at least 1.0.
This needs to be its own suggestion! Would be hilarious to see a fast picket patrol investigate your general area, get a visual on you, realize that your fleet is triple their size, armed to the teeth & running dark, then see them immediately Eburn towards the closest battlestation/heavy fleet like the whelps that they are.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2021, 12:28:09 AM »

still kinda wishing that the pip-squeak fleets someday get extra behavior code to avoid large BAMF fleets running dark and instead summon a larger fleet or merge with other small patrols.  But alas, prolly won't happen until at least 1.0.
This needs to be its own suggestion! Would be hilarious to see a fast picket patrol investigate your general area, get a visual on you, realize that your fleet is triple their size, armed to the teeth & running dark, then see them immediately Eburn towards the closest battlestation/heavy fleet like the whelps that they are.

I have suggested some variation of this before, and I think at least one other person has also dropped a similar suggestion... to no avail.  But still, hopefully by 1.0!
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Deshara

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Re: Increase the minimum and maximum amount of people at bars.
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2021, 12:44:57 AM »

i also kind of wish, and theres absolutely no way that alex implements this, but i wish the events in the bar would have a chance to go away every time you switched menus at the market. There's something incredibly static-feeling about going to the bar, seeing a fight happening, leaving to go shopping, doing some ship maintenance, buying a few ships, repairing your fleet, then going back to the bar and that fight is still happening. One of the core aspects of the experience of a bar is the need to jump in & engage people while u can bc eventually the bar empties out, and the sense that as ur engaging one person in one place stuff is happening (& resolving) elsewhere. FOMO is an important part of bars, if u walk into a bar & theres a bunch of exciting stuff happening then leaving to go grocery shopping and then coming back you should probably return to either the bar being emptied out, or at least in most of the people that caught your interest earlier having left. I'm not saying that the game should try to simulate an active & bustling bar with new stuff popping in, but just having the bar empty out of available encounters the more stuff u do at that market would go a long way. Nothing would make it feel more close to reality as walking into a room, seeing two interesting encounters happening at either side of the room, picking one, then by the time ur done with that one the other one has also stopped happening & ur left with the mystery of what u missed out on
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