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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.  (Read 189390 times)

Corelious

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #240 on: October 10, 2022, 06:24:11 AM »

Been looking at the new changes & additions in SCVE (no time for a proper run because I'm busy making my own stuff), and the new things seem p cool but the changes to old stuff are frankly bizarre imo, esp. the changes to the shieldless ships & subfaction carriers.

re : shieldless ships - the thing that sticks out the most here is the complete lack of active defensive options, that makes the ships really boring to play as (imo), because your only really viable option is to hide at long range and plink away at the enemy w/ mag drivers & abuse their onhit to slowly work through their hull.
This is especially prominent on the mazian, if you use the torch drive to get into close range your armour and hull will just get absolutely shredded by any missiles / shorter range high DPS weapons that the enemy has, in a basic test (standard mazian vs sim onslaught) it lost all armour on both sides in seconds, before retreating to max range and plinking at the onslaught with mag drivers for a full 5 minutes, eventually killing it w/ the onhits, the most boring way possible.
If I was to offer a solution I'd say to copy vanilla; give them some kinda right-click damper (or equivalent) so they can shrug off especially high burst and get into range w/o getting immediately shredded by stuff that they currently just can't counter at all. 

though heh, you've finally found a way to make the thumper useful! (also the mazian's new sprite looks wierd, those extra armour blocks are really poorly integrated into the rest of the hull & could definitely do with a second pass)

re : carrier changes - these are the most bizarre part of the update, they've just made the ships less interesting to use & forced each one into one specific role with minimal build potential for no apparent reason, not got much more to say about them other than that.

also re: skins of skins, they're not really supported by the game, can't remember where it was but safarijohn tried it for a roider ship & alex said as much.

(and finally sorry if this isn't the most coherent, I've never been good at getting my thoughts down in longer posts, you know my @ on discord if you want me to maybe give a better explanation of my thoughts there)

and the poor shockfires...

What carrier changes?  I must have missed that - though from what I've experienced so far the existing carriers weren't changed in this update.  He added a drone wing to the Leveller Pollard which I thought was fun, though I'd like to see the hull mod bonus for being built in added (though... that might be another mod that adds those that I am forgetting right now).

I dig the skins, the only problem I've ran into with them is that they don't all show up in the codex.  Which isn't a game breaking issue - just a minor irk.

The armor issue - I like the concept.  I made the Mazian work by stacking bulkheads and the other main hull upgrade mod.  Damage reduction to hull and reduced explosive damage.  They tank pretty well as well when you couple them with the elite skill that offers hull regen and increases the base armor damage reduction.  There are other skills you have to partner with as well, but there's a lot of options to really stack damage reduction.  Though the remaining problem I think is that the damage reduction might be too LOW on the armor.  A bump from 25% on the Mazian to 35-40% might solve this without removing it's torch drive.  I like the idea of the armor ability you mentioned, but then we are left with an incredibly slow capital that takes most the battle to get to the front line.

But ultimately I understand why he nerfed the armor damage reduction so as to prevent 7500 armor from being OP as hell.  I like where he's going with this, and while it might need some refining it's a good direction.  As for the sprite on the Mazian, maybe the side armor could use a brush up - I think this is more of an issue of it being okay and not great... which isn't a complaint because all the sprite changes he did look amazing, this would be more of an exception to that rule. I did love the sides of the original sprite - and boss if you're reading, it would be super cool if we could still get that model for a unique variant of the Mazian.  Maybe make it unique with shields, faster, and the original turret layout (a bounty maybe?  or a rare upgrade?).
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #241 on: October 10, 2022, 07:51:40 AM »

I think i've found a little bug with the Nan and Musa class Skiff's and Schooners, When you restore a damaged "demilitarized regit" nan, it turns into the classic design one, but this doesnt happen to the Musa.

Edit: the d-modded philips is also missing civilian grade hull
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 07:57:29 AM by Killsode »
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #242 on: October 10, 2022, 08:02:56 AM »

re : shieldless ships - the thing that sticks out the most here is the complete lack of active defensive options, that makes the ships really boring to play as (imo)
As a nonpartisan of the Big Slow Brick school of Starsector combat (motto: can we add more guns?), I have to say it's not shocking that my implementation of something I don't think is fun to play as isn't especially fun to play as. But, for once, they work nicely as AI beaters, so - I'm happy to have the flavor and the clumsy meatshield vibe pleases me.

...give them some kinda right-click damper (or equivalent) so they can shrug off especially high burst and get into range w/o getting immediately shredded by stuff that they currently just can't counter at all.
Tried it, didn't like it; Damper Field doesn't really work on ships above destroyer class - you want to talk boring, a system that just makes fights take longer is Boring Central Station. Right-click Canister Flak, sure, I'd love that; it's just that right now I'd have to write my own system AI to keep it from crashing out, and - eh, I think I'm okay with boring until then.

re : carrier changes - these are the most bizarre part of the update, they've just made the ships less interesting to use & forced each one into one specific role with minimal build potential for no apparent reason, not got much more to say about them other than that.
It's a stopgap, not a final - my ideal implementation there is much more script-heavy, and needs some serious feasibility testing. But this is more tolerable to me for now than mix-and-match clownfighters. I agree it's not ideal, but it's the least bad option for now.

Also, 'bizarre' here seems to be used as a deniable insult, but honestly I am stoked to make bizarre things and hope to befuddle you even more with my design choices in the future. It's kind of my whole jam.

also re: skins of skins, they're not really supported by the game, can't remember where it was but safarijohn tried it for a roider ship & alex said as much.
Yeah that's just straightforwardly an error on my part - it doesn't crash on my machine, so I didn't catch it. Fixed it for later.

I did love the sides of the original sprite - and boss if you're reading, it would be super cool if we could still get that model for a unique variant of the Mazian.
Nah. I don't really enjoy this trend of trying to preserve crappy old content just because someone had an emotional response to it; the present version of the ship is the one I'm actually happy with.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 08:04:56 AM by Harmful Mechanic »
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Melcyna

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #243 on: October 11, 2022, 05:37:38 AM »

Something is not right with Mazian getting trashed by Onslaught in sim or that it needs to stay at range.
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No matter how many times I tried it against an onslaught in 1 on 1, all I had to do is literally jam the Mazian into broadside range and exchange sides every few seconds or so and the Mazian will basically curb stomp the Onslaught everytime in the sim.
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That onslaught just ate a Blast hammer artillery shell in the face, I love the Blast hammer as on top of being a gargantuan shell... it attract point defense fire and gives my missile better chance of going through as well.

I did angle it so that the natural spread of the shots mean the armor takes more distributed damage across the length
And I did time my Rendfire SRM missile so that it only fires AFTER the Onslaught flak burst finished to avoid wasting having my missiles fly straight into flak cloud.
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but otherwise... it's literally just a 'get close', 'sit' and 'spank with broadside', switching sides every few seconds till the other ship kick the bucket under the barrage of gunfire and artillery shells.

I had 1 Mag battery on the rear turret but honestly I would've replaced that with a second Bonecrusher battery if I could... unfortunately I only have 1 of it so I had to make do.
Lost a bit of armor on the bow, mainly on the approach, and a bit on side that took a bit more share than the other one but otherwise finished off the Onslaught with still enough armor to be in fighting condition and no hull loss.
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Now to be fair, my captain does have a truck load of skills and in this playthrough of mine, I have the mod to increase the captain's normal level cap limit...
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That said, a number of those skills doesn't exactly change the outcome of a 1 on 1 brawl fight against an Onslaught in the face.

The ship carry basically combinations of Magelan weapon (Blast hammer, Bonecrusher battery, Rendfire SRM), normal game weapon (heavy machine guns) and the flak from the Dassault-Mikoyan mod primarily because I can't stomach the look of the normal flak guns.
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And for the defensive hull mods I have the Reinforced bulkheads, and Blast door (I looked at the bonus from heavy armor and I don't think I can justify the cost) as well as the exotic mod for maximum armor (at the cost of being more vulnerable to EMP and less durable weapon and engine).

The whole fight sometimes takes less than a minute...
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bodeshmoun

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #244 on: October 11, 2022, 08:24:04 AM »

I have a problem
(Fresh install) I get "Ship hull spec [magellan_schooner_d] not found!" when the game is " Loading hull skin [data/hulls/skins/magellan_schooner_d2.skin]":

<snip log>

Does the game try to load schooner d2 before d(1) ?
It shouldn't - this hasn't been a problem in testing, so I'm not sure what to tell you - but I can look at it later. It may be dependent on the load order of files in your particular operating system... in which case I need to make some substantial changes to those ship skins. Joy.
I have the same problem, and yes : linux and windows does not load the files in the same order.
SafariJohn has encountered the same problem Roider Union mod (I do not have more detail, I was just making tests for him after pointing out the problem).
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Corelious

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #245 on: October 11, 2022, 11:58:15 AM »

I did love the sides of the original sprite - and boss if you're reading, it would be super cool if we could still get that model for a unique variant of the Mazian.
Nah. I don't really enjoy this trend of trying to preserve crappy old content just because someone had an emotional response to it; the present version of the ship is the one I'm actually happy with.
[/quote]

Not sure what trend you're referring to - but a no is a no.  New model is growing on me anyway.
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Corelious

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #246 on: October 12, 2022, 03:45:34 AM »

BCR nor Sky Tigers spawn in the ship markets anymore.  I haven't seen a single one for sale with this run after the new update - is this a bug or intentional?
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #247 on: October 12, 2022, 04:30:18 AM »

What carrier changes?  I must have missed that - though from what I've experienced so far the existing carriers weren't changed in this update.  He added a drone wing to the Leveller Pollard which I thought was fun, though I'd like to see the hull mod bonus for being built in added (though... that might be another mod that adds those that I am forgetting right now).

The skytiger and yellowtail edgar's have locked down fighter wings. in fact i think magellan ships have more built in wings than they have modular wings overall.
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Corelious

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #248 on: October 12, 2022, 08:53:24 AM »

What carrier changes?  I must have missed that - though from what I've experienced so far the existing carriers weren't changed in this update.  He added a drone wing to the Leveller Pollard which I thought was fun, though I'd like to see the hull mod bonus for being built in added (though... that might be another mod that adds those that I am forgetting right now).

The skytiger and yellowtail edgar's have locked down fighter wings. in fact i think magellan ships have more built in wings than they have modular wings overall.

Ah! So they were!  I stand corrected.
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #249 on: October 12, 2022, 09:43:58 AM »

BCR nor Sky Tigers spawn in the ship markets anymore.  I haven't seen a single one for sale with this run after the new update - is this a bug or intentional?

i havent seen ANY blackcollar ships yet, there's plenty of skytigers flying around though, certainly neither of them in any market. Negotiator ship procurement is a little barer than before too... if it wasnt for the herd and the civ ships i'd say this update had removed more campaign accessible content than it added.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #250 on: October 12, 2022, 12:22:02 PM »

Skytiger stuff should have a chance to show up in markets; if not, it'll be available by other means, and hey, you can always quietly jump one of their fleets with the transponder off and hope nobody notices.

For Blackcollar stuff I'm not really sure what to tell you; it'll be available eventually, not really settled on even a stopgap method to make their hulls available. They're meant to be a mission reward from operating with an elite unit, so... rare is thematic, unavailable honestly makes sense, and Console Commands exist.
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #251 on: October 12, 2022, 02:57:57 PM »

If nothing else, the Collars will show up in Nex raid and invasion fleets occasionally. I see BCR Poreys in such fleets... not regularly, but often enough that it's noticeable.
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Corelious

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #252 on: October 12, 2022, 07:54:15 PM »

If nothing else, the Collars will show up in Nex raid and invasion fleets occasionally. I see BCR Poreys in such fleets... not regularly, but often enough that it's noticeable.

So for example, pre update runs I didn't always see BCR ships until several months in. But they were in markets occasionally and there were usually a few in the existing faction fleets.

Sky Tigers have always had their fleets, and exceptionally rarely showed up in market.

Post update, sky tiger fleets still remain but NO BCR fleets or ships in fleets or in market after about 5 years in game. So my point is something seems out of wack - BCR isn't rare its just gone. No market. Not ships in fleets. Nothing.

And I've checked because I thought about the transponder off trick.  It's either sky tigers or baseline Magellan ships. If I understood code better I'd dig around more and try to figure it out but I don't so I can't help beyond saying "hey, after having done 100+ runs as your faction I'm noticing a problem post update". (100 is probably an understatement because I really love Magellan and how it plays compared to any other faction). 
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #253 on: October 12, 2022, 08:21:40 PM »

I can turn their market spawns back on - but until they actually have fleet spawning and missions associated with them, what we have now is a stopgap to keep the hulls available at all. They're meant to be a reward for the first half of the story missions, not something you just buy.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 08:31:27 PM by Harmful Mechanic »
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.95.1a] Magellan Protectorate v1.5a - Big update.
« Reply #254 on: October 12, 2022, 08:42:10 PM »

yeah uh even if it's for your own use it's usually a done thing to ask the mod maker if it's cool to do so before posting the results publicly.

edit: this was in reference to fan designs being shared completely unprompted or without any asking of permission
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 08:57:16 PM by SpaceDrake »
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