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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.25a - New goodies, tweaks and fixes.  (Read 56614 times)

tanith

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2021, 04:20:13 PM »

Excellent work as always, the vector sprites look great. My only disappointment was seeing the Mazian didn't come equipped with four combat riders (not many Cherryh references out there, so I love the names.)
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2021, 10:14:09 PM »

So, I have to ask, since it's the only thing I can find wrong with this mod so far;

What's with all the frag weapons?
Well, the genesis of what became Magellans was a conversation with MesoTroniK about how we'd had a couple HW mods attempted (at that date) but that what would be really ambitious is a mod that played like Homeworld did, and where the game mechanics actually behaved like HW.

So I came up with a schema of 1) high per-shot fragmentation damage for all the guns, 2) HE damage for Ion Beams, and 3) energy damage on all the missiles. The HE beams got scrapped for HE flamers, but otherwise all of that stuff made it into the released Magellan Protectorate mod in one form or another and more or less worked the way I wanted.

I ended up scrapping the planned procgen integration/NPC-only idea I'd originally had, and decided to make it an actual faction, so I ended up adding a bunch of other weapons (including, amusingly, Battletech-style LRMs and SRMs) and pushing it more towards 'normal' Starsector faction balance, but the oddball frag weapons and energy missiles are still pretty prominent.

Fragmentation damage is the worst damage type in the game,
Highly debatable. Frag damage is efficient and weapons using it often have impressive burst. Frag is good against missiles and fighters, and struggles with armor and shields unless you combo it with something else, but it fills for low-tech the same role that beams fill for high-tech. It's situational, not bad.

I did up the reliability of some crits, though, as what worked in 0.9.1a fell off a bit vs. the recent changes to the way armor is damaged in 0.95a. The Bonesaw/Boneshaker/Bonecrusher line are meant to be boring and reliable weapons, never amazing but a little easier to hit stuff with than other Magellan weapons. Use them as flank weapons and secondaries and you may be pleasantly surprised.

The only problem is the frag weapons, which makes thematically equipping Leveller ships with Leveller weapons risky.
Levellers as currently implemented are roster-incomplete and intentionally somewhat weak (as you'd expect from energy-converted low-tech ships). That's not going to be the case forever; they have a planned roster of a few more, and unique, ships that, while rare in their fleets, should make them a lot more dangerous.

The Leveller frag weapons are meant to be paired with dedicated shield-busting and armor-cracking missiles, though, so, same deal; high burst, good efficiency, a little extra range. They're easier to hit with than a lot of other energy weapons and make good secondary batteries.

So yeah, that's it really. Everything else about this mod is awesome. Ships feel great, weapons (mostly) are balanced and effective, and an almost fighter-less faction is a breath of fresh air.
Thanks. The fighter-light design was fun to figure out; when I get around to their battlecruiser, I'm planning to put a single fighter bay on it, but otherwise I'm enjoying making a gunline faction. Between the usual run of tweaks and expanded campaign content I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with coming updates as well.

Excellent work as always, the vector sprites look great. My only disappointment was seeing the Mazian didn't come equipped with four combat riders (not many Cherryh references out there, so I love the names.)
Thanks. It was lots of fun; I enjoyed the hell out of making it.

I'd love to do some kind of carrier/rider system in Starsector, but that would have to wait for a different mod with a different set of mechanical choices to really do well.

Meanwhile, there's a very thinly-veiled expy of Pell Station in DME...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 01:32:02 AM by Harmful Mechanic »
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Satirical

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2021, 01:23:12 AM »

are u planning to make the armored sections on the dedicated carrier into real “armor” modules? looks cool though
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 01:29:13 AM by Satirical »
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2021, 08:09:07 AM »

are u planning to make the armored sections on the dedicated carrier into real “armor” modules? looks cool though
This comment is puzzling because I can't parse 1) what ship you're talking about and 2) what you're asking me to do.

Given the number of issues that SHIP_WITH_MODULES seems to cause in the base game, though, I'm going to avoid putting modules on any more 'normal' ships that players can get from markets.
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Arcalane

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2021, 08:15:36 AM »

I'm guessing they mean the Edger - it has those little armoured plates on the port/starboard small mounts? The Mazian does the same thing on the front triple mounts.

Not sure what good they'd do anyone as destroyable armour modules given how small they are!
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2021, 09:32:45 AM »

Yeah, module armor needs to be pretty broad to be any use at all; I wouldn't put more than a couple of modules on anything cruiser-sized, knowing what I now know about the sheer volume of issues they have. And I'm definitely not looking to mess with success on the Edger.

(Here's hoping Alex gives us a module-armor ship in vanilla so he'll have an incentive to fix the problems for good.)
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Satirical

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2021, 02:28:09 PM »

Yeah, module armor needs to be pretty broad to be any use at all; I wouldn't put more than a couple of modules on anything cruiser-sized, knowing what I now know about the sheer volume of issues they have. And I'm definitely not looking to mess with success on the Edger.

(Here's hoping Alex gives us a module-armor ship in vanilla so he'll have an incentive to fix the problems for good.)

yeah i meant the little armor cosmetics on the edger  ;D they look epic

« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:32:57 PM by Satirical »
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Captain Waffle

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2021, 02:57:30 PM »

Levellers as currently implemented are roster-incomplete and intentionally somewhat weak (as you'd expect from energy-converted low-tech ships). That's not going to be the case forever; they have a planned roster of a few more, and unique, ships that, while rare in their fleets, should make them a lot more dangerous.

Definitely looking forward to that. About the frag weapons, I see what you mean, they are situational (and good when said situation favors them). Oh, and... dear god... Shockfire MRMs are obscenely effective. Turns an otherwise annoying fight against Dekker spam into a laughably efficient slaughter.

Keep up the good work! You never disappoint.
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shpooky

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2021, 05:11:54 PM »

ships in this mod remind me of homeworld 2
i love it!
looking forward to more
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Bastion.Systems

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2021, 04:03:11 AM »

Some thoughts after several runs with the faction:

The faction fits very well into the base game theme and seems to not shift the game balance all that much, as the ships are fairly conservative and the weapons seem to be all inferior to base game stuff (with the exception of ripfire missiles, these are great).
I have had a lot of fun playing Magellan, it's a great challenge faction with Nex starfarer mode. Their starting diplomatic situation guarantees they will be at war with most of the sector in short order.
Quillon is really fun as a player ship, catching missiles with the armored prow, fast dodge maneuvers, it's like a destroyer-size frigate. Slap dual assault chainguns on it and it will shred.
I wish Talley would appear in the markets and fleets, it's a neat looking ship.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 06:33:38 AM by Bastion.Systems »
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AdmiralRem

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2021, 04:58:55 AM »

Soooo might want to beef up the home system. Just got taken over by Hegemony and now I lost everything.... game over....
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AdmiralRem

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2021, 05:02:26 AM »

This is from the other day but it wouldn't let me post it for some reason.


Thoughts so far. Haven’t played a ton yet. But I’ve used the light cruiser and everything under it, and whatever weapons are common. At first I thought they were OP with all these fast missiles flying around, after a while I now kinda feel like the weapons are a bit underwhelming? I’m struggling to get solid damage out there, then again I’m still experimenting and I’m used to playing almost exclusively Diable.

The Quillon is so good I have no reason to use the others except for maybe the Kant for support. I feel like the Quillon speed needs to be nerfed (now that I think of it it might have safety overrides) or more likely the others need a boost? I’ve just realized I’ve never seen the Tally, what’s up with that? The Kant seems to get insta fluxed when attacked. Just me?

Don’t have much to say about weapons still trying g to figure them out. I’m confused how there are flack mainline weapons and armor focused PD but they seem to work. The mid sized EMP bomb thing is awesome and I love the beam cutter thing even though it didn’t seem to do a lot of damage? But I like that they are pretty unique.

Any plans for more ships? Seems like there is a void for a small 2 bay carrier. Maybe even just giving the Kant 2 bays since it seems so squishy.

Anyways really enjoying it so far and just wanted to give some feedback after a few hours of play. Love the look, love the HW feel. Curious why you didn’t go even more HW with some ships? Multiple of the DOK ships would translate perfectly. The Gaalsian ships already look like space ships.

Keep it up! Thanks for all the hard work!
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2021, 09:40:53 AM »

Thoughts so far. Haven’t played a ton yet. But I’ve used the light cruiser and everything under it, and whatever weapons are common. At first I thought they were OP with all these fast missiles flying around, after a while I now kinda feel like the weapons are a bit underwhelming? I’m struggling to get solid damage out there, then again I’m still experimenting and I’m used to playing almost exclusively Diable.

The Quillon is so good I have no reason to use the others except for maybe the Kant for support. I feel like the Quillon speed needs to be nerfed (now that I think of it it might have safety overrides) or more likely the others need a boost?
I did end up trimming top speed a bit; still very good, no longer quite so impressive.

I’ve just realized I’ve never seen the Tally, what’s up with that?
Looks like a mistake; should be fixed in the dev.

The Kant seems to get insta fluxed when attacked. Just me?
May just be you; it took some balancing downwards to arrive at the point it's at now and it's still very strong. It's just not really a pure front-line combat ship, despite being very good for bullying frigates; it's a heavy escort ship with teeth. It's a good ship to take out on exploration missions, though; properly rigged, it can cut through Domain drones like nobody's business.

Any plans for more ships?
Already have two in the dev, a battlecruiser and a phase cruiser. Otherwise... I've got a few more things I want for story missions, and then I'm full up. It's meant to be a somewhat smaller mod, with the minimum of fat.

Seems like there is a void for a small 2 bay carrier. Maybe even just giving the Kant 2 bays since it seems so squishy.
That void is intended; I may put a dedicated destroyer carrier in the mod later - but it won't be Magellan, and I'm trying to avoid a faction that duplicates every vanilla role. Magellan fleets are fighter-light and rely more on cheap and plentiful destroyers and frigates to do a lot of what vanilla fleets do with carriers.

(If I gave the Kant two bays, it would probably have one of them filled by a built-in wing and get a kick in the flux stats. Maybe even fighter range reduction via hullmod, too.)

Anyways really enjoying it so far and just wanted to give some feedback after a few hours of play. Love the look, love the HW feel. Curious why you didn’t go even more HW with some ships? Multiple of the DOK ships would translate perfectly. The Gaalsian ships already look like space ships.
Way ahead of you here; I already did a bunch of them as Deserter ships in DME.

Otherwise, I'm more attached to making a fun Starsector mod with some Homeworld in it than I am to making a perfect Homeworld mod for Starsector.

If that means a HW ship silhouette is the right choice, I'll do it, but I'm not looking to use every HW ship (in part because many of them would just translate badly, either visually or mechanically or both; that's why there's no not-an-Ion-Cannon destroyer, for example), and I'm being disciplined about not adding things just to have them.

Glad you like it, though.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 09:48:38 AM by Harmful Mechanic »
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AdmiralRem

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2021, 05:59:52 AM »

So started a new game (because Hegemony took over the home system) and within just a few hours 2-3 Hegemony took over Magellan yet again..... I don’t know if I’m missing something or Hegemony really hates Magellan or is this normal for the Nexium (whatever it’s called) mod? But frustrating to not be able use the faction.
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Helldiver

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Re: [0.95a] Magellan Protectorate v1.0a - Release!
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2021, 06:21:24 AM »

So started a new game (because Hegemony took over the home system) and within just a few hours 2-3 Hegemony took over Magellan yet again..... I don’t know if I’m missing something or Hegemony really hates Magellan or is this normal for the Nexium (whatever it’s called) mod? But frustrating to not be able use the faction.

Did you turn Starfarer mode on when setting up your playthrough? That makes whatever faction you're part of more hated by default as a challenge. You can change that in settings if you want to keep other effects of the mode (reduced colony gains etc) without the extra aggression.

Otherwise, I'm not sure. I got Magellans and Nex and while Magellans will get attacked by someone or other soon enough, they seem able to defend themselves (they haven't lost a world yet).
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