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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: Bounty Balance  (Read 1004 times)

Draba

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Re: Bounty Balance
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2021, 05:22:53 PM »

IMO early-mid is more on the too generous side, I usually do bounties early and the payout seemed to be high for most.
What Thaago already mentioned helps a lot: don't haul too many ships around and just throw away whatever got too beaten up.
Also prioritize getting all possible officers ASAP, and first 3 points in leadership helps a lot if you still have problems.

No need to cheese to make combat worth it, I generally dislike phase ships/DC/SO and it was fine without them.
Brawler/sunder/medusa/champion mix up until finding high tech package worked.
Kite/lasher/enforcer/falcon/carrier spam with all missile+strike commander+PD officers also worked.
It's definitely not my awesome piloting skills, didn't even do much with the carrier fleet.
Do wish that non-officered non-DC chaff wasn't that bad though.


There is a point later where final bounty strength is reached and you do not have a full fleet yet, that's when onslaught+legion fleets hurt (doubly against carriers, was still well worth the payout but the crew losses are a pain).
Conquests are great for piloting, but when you can coordinate a fleet against them the abysmal shields make them much easier for most compositions than the low tech IMO.
Paragon/Astral generally get swarmed at standard battlesize.

After that part remnant fleets and special bounties are the ones that cause losses, standard human ones are outclassed by the fully S-modded/officered ships of your choice.
Harbingers/dooms are the big threat, the rest IMO aren't really dangerous for a fleet that can stand up to radiants.

I wonder if it would be better if random bounties didn't go over a threshold (~150-200k maybe) and high end bounties were exclusive to contact missions.

I would not like this. 150-200k are fights on the level of first few destroyer purchases or even tutorial fleets (for the weak pirate ones, bit of RNG there) for player who specialize in bounty hunting. I like the contact system in general, but I don't want to have to grind through 10-20 bar missions to get a decently important bounty contact.
Same here, finding strong non-redacted fleets to fight shouldn't be a chore.
Even after you find a very high contact you have to go back to it every time for a target location.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 05:18:44 AM by Draba »
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Drone_Fragger

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Re: Bounty Balance
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2021, 02:01:01 AM »

With the officer spam it’s normal for the AI to field 2 capitals for every one you field, and then they will still have the same number of supporting vessels on the field as well. It’s not unwinnwble but it can be incredibly annoying if it’s like 2 or 3 conquests chain-gibbing your ships with 6 hurricane Mircs at a time.
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ElPresidente

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Re: Bounty Balance
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2021, 02:40:03 AM »

Bounty payout being worth it depends heavily on how concentrated and powerful the player fleet is and to be honest on player skill, both in combat and in fleet building. 300k multi capital bounties can be done with a couple of cruisers + half a dozen destroyers + support ships (and not current power strategies of Dooms/phase ships/Derelict contingent either, just normal non-SO ships) because they aren't nearly as dangerous as their ship numbers suggest. They tend to have low quality loadouts and officers, at least compared to endgame bounties.

Designing game around min-maxers and "elite" players is not a good strategy.
Winning without loses is a gamble - it depends on the enemy fleet, weapons and your AI. You only directly control one ship and more than once I've seen the AI rush to it's doom, or end up in an unfavorable matchup or be more of a hinderance than help. Common causes for ship losses:
- Phase ships are notorious for moving in between allied cruisers/battleship and the enemy, preventing it from shooting and getting blasted in return.
- The Defend Location command often sees my line of cruiser and battleship RETREATING instead of holding ground, letting the enemy take it.
- slower ships being isolated and not being able to retreat
- AI using high-damage, high flux anti-cap burst weapons on FIGHTERS and ending up at max flux when the enemy cruiser moves in.
- The Hug the Bottom strategy works only if there are no objective. If a comm point or sensor jammer are close to the enemy side, you have to try and capture them, or risk being swarmed EVEN MORE.

Also the enemy always seems to have more DP on the field, more ships to flank you.

The bounty payout SHOULD start on the assumption you WILL lose ships. When two equal fleets face off and you suffer 25% casualties, but rout the enemy, that is considered a MAJOR victory. Large scale ship combat without loses on your side, is realistically, rare as hell. Almost a miracle in Real Life.
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SurplusDOS

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Re: Bounty Balance
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2021, 05:16:11 AM »

[snip]

The bounty payout SHOULD start on the assumption you WILL lose ships. When two equal fleets face off and you suffer 25% casualties, but rout the enemy, that is considered a MAJOR victory. Large scale ship combat without loses on your side, is realistically, rare as hell. Almost a miracle in Real Life.

Yes, this please. I really enjoy starsector but some of the bounties are pretty ridiculous. I can complete them but I either have to save scum or take casualties that are expensive to replace. It can be punishing to cycle through multiple contacts to try and find a mission that doesn't require me to fight multiple capitals at the same time (without any capitals myself). I have fought the smaller multi capital fleets before and won but not without taking losses. I'd like if the default option for MEDIUM level contacts to have me fight similar fleets, perhaps only offering fleets with capitals as a challenge and not the default option. I would love to try and go down industry and leadership but the constant necessity for me to personally intervene to win the capital heavy fights I am given leaves me with no choice but to choose combat every time.

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