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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a  (Read 65277 times)

theDragn

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.0a
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2021, 11:12:22 AM »

It’s mainly about Ace core be exceptionally good for a random subset of fighters for any given version. I can see how it was broken as 30OP flat and people just S-mod it in to mitigate the cost completely, so that’s why it’s like this at the moment: you get what you paid for.

But it still doesn’t feel right... maybe I’ll do a flat % increase across the board instead... but I don’t want to invalidate multiple deck giving additional value and smaller ships definitely can’t afford as much Op as larger ones.

The main purpose of Ace core is to empower lower deck count carriers or combat carrier to have more fighter power at a price, and I don’t want the price be completely mitigated by S mod; nor do I want to completely invalidate Astrals from using it but generally shouldn’t be superior to Swarm core for those scenarios.

Since so many people has built it in I also want to keep the base price at slightly higher end instead of making it cheap then move all the cost as flat fighter cost nor do I want to make it not S-moddable. It’s just... hard to balance.

Fun fact: drover with warthog Op cost is unchanged if you didn’t build it in.

Mainly the problem with Ace Core (in my opinion, anyway) is that it provides a substantial bonus to armor penetration capability for fighter wings, because it increases per-hit damage along with everything else. This can make fighters that were previously fairly ineffective against armored ships shred through targets with 1k+ armor. Likewise, the reduced damage taken makes armored fighters inordinately stronger- a fighter with 200 armor that takes 50% less damage has an enormous (more than 100%) bonus to survivability, because the % damage reduction applies before the armor damage reduction calculation.

The solution to this would be to have the fighters get hull HP, flux, and rate-of-fire boosts (and probably an ammo regen boost too, because I'm sure there are modded fighters that use mag-fed guns), and then balance around that- since increasing those numbers will pretty much always linearly scale a fighter's power, rather than exponentially scaling it like a damage boost or damage taken reduction does.

Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2021, 11:30:32 AM »

I'm not sure if worrying about S-mods is a good idea, personally. They let you ignore limits up to a point sure, but I don't think balancing something around it should be done.
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renegade_sock

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #122 on: October 03, 2021, 02:42:56 AM »

Hey,

I like the idea of this mod but it feels like a lot of thhese mods are broken.

If I use ace carrier core with flux entanglement then I can beat a paragon with a 12 DP carrier that has a fighter with 360 shield coverage.

The targeting datalink idea is also cool but feels super broken at it's current values. I can have xyphos sniping enemy ships from so far away
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hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #123 on: October 03, 2021, 08:34:23 AM »

So I know its a nitpick

but could you please put the carrier core descriptions in the same order as the image showing them off ingame in the first post ?

was reading them and got confused thinking I had missed some....
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2021, 10:31:44 PM »

Hey,

I like the idea of this mod but it feels like a lot of thhese mods are broken.

If I use ace carrier core with flux entanglement then I can beat a paragon with a 12 DP carrier that has a fighter with 360 shield coverage.

The targeting datalink idea is also cool but feels super broken at it's current values. I can have xyphos sniping enemy ships from so far away

Or care about whatever broken mod providing 360 degree shielded fighters. Vanilla fighters have at most 180 omni at 1.0 terrible efficiency.

Datalink is broken with what? Can you be more specific? I wouldn't think 1800 range Xyphos on a capital is unreasonable since that's the capital gun range. You'll need ITU to provide the bonus to make it any useful and those all take up OPs.

tantananan

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #125 on: October 26, 2021, 09:50:23 PM »

Does this work with diable wanzers? Awesome mod btw! cheers!
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elgashin17

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2021, 07:44:54 AM »

Crash report:
I installed the Modern Carriers + version and got a crash on launch. In log file it said "carriersafetyoverrides hullmod" was missing. I replaced the mod with normal version without + and it works fine. Maybe has something to do with other 30 mods,I dunno.

NVM me no smart
« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 05:04:40 PM by elgashin17 »
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Phenir

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #127 on: November 02, 2021, 01:09:14 PM »

Crash report:
I installed the Modern Carriers + version and got a crash on launch. In log file it said "carriersafetyoverrides hullmod" was missing. I replaced the mod with normal version without + and it works fine. Maybe has something to do with other 30 mods,I dunno.
The + version is a separate mod intended to be installed alongside the regular version.
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zhongliyunchu

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2021, 06:56:24 PM »

hello
May I ask promission for translate this mod into chinese and put it into https://www.fossic.org ?
And can i decompile the java file to translate combat UI (like CarrierLoadBalance) and description(like SwarmCarrierCore) , or i just change hull_mods.csv?
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #129 on: November 19, 2021, 09:12:51 AM »

hello
May I ask promission for translate this mod into chinese and put it into https://www.fossic.org ?
And can i decompile the java file to translate combat UI (like CarrierLoadBalance) and description(like SwarmCarrierCore) , or i just change hull_mods.csv?
https://www.fossic.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2955&extra=page%3D1

I do not plan to update it until 0.95 localization is completed.

zhongliyunchu

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #130 on: December 05, 2021, 07:57:02 PM »

hello
May I ask promission for translate this mod into chinese and put it into https://www.fossic.org ?
And can i decompile the java file to translate combat UI (like CarrierLoadBalance) and description(like SwarmCarrierCore) , or i just change hull_mods.csv?
https://www.fossic.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2955&extra=page%3D1

I do not plan to update it until 0.95 localization is completed.

got it
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ryujinblade

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #131 on: January 16, 2022, 10:27:24 PM »

Crash report:
I installed the Modern Carriers + version and got a crash on launch. In log file it said "carriersafetyoverrides hullmod" was missing. I replaced the mod with normal version without + and it works fine. Maybe has something to do with other 30 mods,I dunno.
The + version is a separate mod intended to be installed alongside the regular version.

your a saint was juts looking for this
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Dandywalken

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #132 on: January 17, 2022, 01:28:25 PM »

Hello, 

Is it possible to manually add the special Carrier Cores to third party/mod ships by hand?  Or would that require different hullmod variants to be scripted for those ships?

This mod is fantastic, thank you for making it!
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #133 on: January 17, 2022, 03:37:24 PM »

Hello, 

Is it possible to manually add the special Carrier Cores to third party/mod ships by hand?  Or would that require different hullmod variants to be scripted for those ships?

This mod is fantastic, thank you for making it!

It is possible, but will require mods to collaborate and make a new mod that depends on both of the mods involved.
Alternatively, if you want it as a personal additional mod, check how Modern Carrier + injects the hullmods to the vanilla faction ships and do the similar to mods in question.

Crash report:
I installed the Modern Carriers + version and got a crash on launch. In log file it said "carriersafetyoverrides hullmod" was missing. I replaced the mod with normal version without + and it works fine. Maybe has something to do with other 30 mods,I dunno.
The + version is a separate mod intended to be installed alongside the regular version.

your a saint was juts looking for this

I’ll update + to have base mod being the requirement to reduce confusion

Mr. Smiley

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« Reply #134 on: January 17, 2022, 06:59:09 PM »

Hey Sutopia, I like the carrier focused mod, definitely makes running a full carrier battle group crazy and fun.

Also on a side note, your second link 'Carrier +' needs updating it leads to a 404. I had to delete part of the link content up to /release/ to see the file so I can download as it is linking to 1.2.0a, but the mod is on 1.2.0b
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