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Author Topic: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a  (Read 30042 times)

Sutopia

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[0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers 1.6.1a
« on: May 08, 2021, 07:37:32 PM »

Download Modern Carriers
Download Modern Carriers S Addition


Important note: please remove existing Modern Carrier mod if you have installed any version up until 1.3.0 to ensure content accuracy
All hullmods now requires purchasing or salvaging


Modern Carriers V1.6



Features v1.6
Carrier Cores
These cores significantly changes how a carrier performs. They are mutually exclusive and have rather high OP costs: choose wisely.

Core Details
  • Ace Core - Reduces fighter bay to 1 but significantly enhances wing ability. It is best suited for low deck carriers and combat carriers.
  • Swarm Core - Increases fighter bay at a cost of significantly reduced fighter replacement speed and the replacement rate will drop faster if suffering fighter loss. Using this core will be all-or-nothing: you burst down the enemy with ease or struggle to replenish wings on a failed strike.
  • Command Core - Significantly increases fighter engagement range and a bonus on command point regeneration. The downside is that 75% of the max speed is transferred to 0-flux bonus speed, so plan ahead before you issue the strike order.
  • Skirmish Core - Skirmish focuses on run-and-gun tactics. All the fighters receive a large speed bonus that is best suited for rapid deployments. The carrier itself also is made to allow 0-flux bonus to take effect at 2% flux, allowing the carrier to pick the fight with ease.
  • Support Core - Provides various fleet-wide bonuses and can heal its own fighters if they're close enough. If you don't know what to go with, this will be the safe pick.

[close]
Modern Carrier Hullmods
Want to spice up some more? We got you covered!

Hullmod Details
  • Advanced Fighter Command - When a wing suffers more loss, the replacement speed is more increased. However, launching the fighter with such system will cost additional replacement rates. Overall it will be able to recover fighter losses much faster at additional costs of replacement rates.
  • Bomber External Hardpoint - Bombers get double bombs! But the extra weight significantly reduces their speed and maneuverability. Providing enough escort or right up doing close quarter combat would yield great results.
  • Fighter Armor Removal - Who needs armor anyways? Remove it to get flux and speed bonus!
  • Flux Quantum Entanglement - Transfers fighter flux to carrier, including hard flux. Can accidentally overload carrier, use with extreme cautions.
  • Gunship Heavy Ordnance - More DPS for non-bombers, but less maneuverability
  • Manufactory Load Balance - A hullmod that mostly benefits mixed wings, as fighter bays are often less damaged than bombers, this hullmod would be able to move the replacement rate from fighter to bomber and increases overall recovery speed.
  • Targeting Data Link - Ever wanted a 1800 range Xyphos wing? Now your Odyssey can get one! It allows the fighter to obtain range bonuses applied to the carrier, so don't forget your integrated targeting unit!
  • Fighter Command Overclock - Essentially carrier's safety override. Large bonuses with huge penalties, play simulation to get a feel of it.
"Did you beat the Paladin Paragon?"
"Yes"
"What did it cost?"
"200 pilots"
[close]

missions
Operation Tango (Contains campaign spoiler)

[close]
[close]

[close]

About S Addition
S Addition is a utility mod in folder Modern Carrier +

  • Prometheus Mk2 now has Fighter Command Overclock as built in, making it significantly more dangerous
  • Spark Interceptor now has 2 burst PD laser (high delay) instead of 1
  • All vanilla remnants and Astrals get Advanced Carrier as built in
  • All vanilla station hangar modules receives a Carrier Core and a Modern Carrier hullmod that fits the tech theme
  • Remnant station has 5 fighter related hullmods installed including Targeting Data Link and Advanced Carrier so be aware
[close]

FAQ
What does Load Balancer actually do?
It's a less known fact that all fighter bays have their individual replacement rate, but vanilla always sync them across the board.
With Load Balancer, if you have multiple wings and one is heavily damaged while the other is not, it will suck all the replacement rate from the undamaged decks and move it to the one that needs replacement.
It also will show a combat UI to inform you all the decks' current active replacement rate.

For example, you have a wing at 1/3 and another at 3/3. Your replacement rate shows 80%, it means the replacement clock for the first wing is ticking at only 80% speed.
However if you install the Load Balancer, it shifts the rate from the second wing, the new replacement rate distribution will be 99% / 61%. Your damaged wing will be replacing at a much better speed but it cannot surpass the full speed (game limit).

How does the Command Overclock work?
 You will notice your replacement rate completely sucked dry upon entering battle because all replacement rates have been converted to reserved deployments - which gets deployed as soon as fighter loss or bomber done with bombing run.
Do note that increased reserved deployment will increase the cost of deployment rate for the next reserve. The current implementation ratio is every 100% wing size of reserve adds 100% of reserve cost. The costs quickly adds up so be aware.
For balance consideration, the cost DOES scale with the carrier's replacement time multiplier, so swarm core + overclock is not always a good idea. (Emergency Launch is currently NOT taking such multiplier into consideration)
This mod does not allow S-modding for obvious reasons.
[close]

version log
WIP
AI Overhaul
Bastion Core AI (suspended)

2021/6/21 v1.6.1a
Re-adjusted Ace core again: prevent excessive multiplier for capitals
Removed fighter bay bonus completely

2021/6/21 v1.6.0a
Re-adjusted Ace wing
Updated all related variants

2021/6/10 v1.5.2a
Added a new dominator variant
Nerfed Ace core (specifically for low OP wings)
  • Base bonus cost increased to 4 (was: 3)
  • The base bonus cost now takes OP cost modifier into account
Added additional check on Ace core to prevent weird behavior

2021/6/8 v1.5.1b
Modified External Hardpoint to be more accessible
Modified some variants so Cores are more evenly distributed
Separated download repository for Modern Carrier (vanilla) and S Addition utility

2021/6/5 v1.5.0b
Fixed an unintended message

2021/6/5 v1.5.0a
Overhaul of object structure and UI elements. Should be cleaner than before.

Added another cursed Astrals variant.

2021/5/31 v1.4.2a
Revamped Emergency Launch Sequence:
It's now "Advanced Fighter Command", with a brand new graphic (copyright attached) and otherwise generic buff effect.

Buffed Skirmish Core to have lower range penalty, it's missing too much.

Added more detailed tooltip for several hullmods

Additional guardrail against Swarm core autofit by AI fleet: if a target variant doesn't contain swarm core initially it will never be fitted (because autofit doesn't auto fill fighter bays)

Reduced Load Balance OP cost

2021/5/31 v1.4.1a
Version checker compatible

2021/5/31 v1.4.0c
Fixed the bug retiring wrong hullmod, ooooops  :'(

2021/5/30 v1.4.0b
Reduced "Operation Tango" enemy difficulty (Test play was done during no officer and Alpha core is pretty OP)

2021/5/30 v1.4.0a
Retired Electronic Superiority (If you have installed it already you may keep it)

Allowed carrier with built-in wing to utilize Swarm core
Added Support Core (functionally replaces Electronic Superiority)
Added a very defensive Paragon variant and added to simulation. Perfect for testing out your carrier offense ability.

Added a new mission "Operation Tango"

2021/5/30 v1.3.7c
Fixed some variants
Added simulation opponents

2021/5/29 v1.3.7b
Fixed the exploit of s-mod. Attempting to S-mod then remove the requirement hullmod will result in fighters immediately die upon take-off.
Allowed Ace core to be installed on ships using Converted Hangar
Added several variants that may be spawned by vanilla factions, including converted-ace hangars (low chance)
Lowered FCO carrier spawn chance

2021/5/27 v1.3.6a
Ace Core bonus balance
Ace Core visual effect
Swarm Core removal guardrail
Further nerfed Fighter Command Overclock. Range penalty is now 60% (was 50%)
Added several new variants that have rather low chance to spawn, including a cursed variant.
Updated Modern Carrier + (Prometheus mk2 removed swarm core - it simply doesn't have the OP to do it)

2021/5/26 v1.3.5b
Fixed SO nerf (did not properly apply cost multiplier)

2021/5/26 v1.3.5a
Drastically changed Ace Core bonuses
Re-balanced hullmod prices, tier and OP cost
Removed ECCM sync for Targeting Data Link
Fixed a NPE and some similar potential exceptions
Nerfed Command Overclock: now cost scales double as fast

2021/5/25 v1.3.1a
All hullmods are now acquired via market or exploration
Moved some vanilla conversion to a separate utility mod
Slightly changed bonus for Ace Core

2021/5/24 v1.3.0a
Deactivation
Bastion Carrier Core: awaiting new AI library mod
If you have installed it prior to this version you can keep it, but since the vanilla AI is glitchy it's not recommended to keep using.

New Content
Ace Carrier Core: Reduce deck to 1 but significantly enhanced ability
Flux Quantum Entanglement: Fighter channel flux to carrier
Targeting Data Link: Fighter receives carrier targeting unit bonus

Update
Fighter Command Overclock graphics
Stations except for high tech all got updated Modern built in modules
Remnant carriers and stations are now much more deadly due to previous change

Fixes
Emergency Launch Sequence using wrong parameter
Fighter Armor Removal not removing armor properly

2021/5/16 v1.2.5a
Buffed bomber external hard points:
If a bomber is determined utilizing bomb bay, half the agility penalty and 1.5x rof to ensure finishing bombing run in one pass

Fixed an issue for Load Balancer not correctly determining lost fighter
Enhanced Load Balancer logic:
Only show one message. (Used to be 2 if empty deck reserve is available: pointless to show all other decks since they're all working at 99% capacity)
Enabled reaching 100% replacement rate if reserved rate is full / not having empty deck.

Added description for Swarm core for exact penalty information

2021/5/14 v1.2.0a
Changed bomber external hard points again:
Now all bombing runs lasts at least 2.5 seconds including rocket bombers and bomb bay bombers
(the latter should not get any actual impact)
If a weapon has 0 refire delay the effect does not apply; If the weapon regenerates it does not apply.

Nerfed Fighter Command Overclock:
Now uses a complicated mechanism that prevent infinite fighter spam. Basically it’s Emergency launch sequence but always active. The base cost is the same but for every additional reserved deployment the cost increases, so the reserve can not simply pile infinitely. The cost increase is proportional to reserve/(fighter wing size). Expect to see your replacement rate stuck below 50%: you’ll be solely relying on deploying the reserved fighters.
To prevent replacement rate stagger: removed replacement rate drop from lost fighter completely. You drain your replacement rate mainly by pumping out fighter reserves.

Added fighter ECM package.

Bastion Core is under bandage fix, updated the fighter operating range to 600.

All vanilla stations now host at least one carrier core and one modern modification.

Fixed several descriptions.

2021/5/12 v1.12a
Replaced bomber external hardpoint graphic (copyright attached)
Fixed a bug where agility modifier after dropping bomb over-tuned
Added a minimum re-fire delay for torpedo bomber (does not affect bomb bay bombers)
Modified vanilla hull built-in modern(TM) hullmod:
  • Midline station now uses Skirmish core
  • Low tech station now uses Command core and Gunship Heavy Ordnance
Changed tags for several hullmods to be more in-line with vanilla tag usage

2021/5/11 v1.1a
Fixed a bug where Load Balancer is not using empty fighter bays
Modified Skirmish Core: reduced complexity
Split Heavy Ordnance into bomber and non-bomber variants
Reduced performance impact for advanceInCombat methods

2021/5/11 v1.0a
Added Command Core
Added 4 new hullmods

2021/5/9 v095b
Revamped Skirmish core
Clarified some descriptions

2021/5/8 v095a
initial release
[close]

Special Thanks:
The Soldier: Balance / play testing
Peach Patrol: Sharing knowledge about vanilla integration
maidlover (Chinese forum): Balance / play testing

« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 09:37:56 PM by Sutopia »
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Jonlissla

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2021, 10:39:50 PM »

Specialising carriers should be fun. I'll give the mod a go. Two things I've noticed though;

First, the .zip file only has a data directory, so you have to create a new mod folder and put said data folder in it for it to work. Takes like five seconds to make a new folder, tops, but it's a QoL thing.

Second, the Skirmish Carrier Core seems brutally strong on paper. A 100% boost to top speed AND acceleration? Haven't yet tried it out but I imagine this makes bombers brutally powerful.
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The Soldier

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2021, 10:52:10 PM »

I like the concepts of the new Carrier Cores! The Bastion core especially; this really lets you build a for a battlecarrier. Slap it on a Mora with a couple Roider Rocksaw wings and a Dragline, and you've got a dangerously powerful brick that can dish out damage like no one's business, if a bit near-sighted. 50% more range on the clipped Assault Chainguns, Vulcan Cannons, and mini-Sharpshooters? Check! +50% rate of fire on the Dragline's infinite-ammo Annihilator Rocket Pod? Check! -50% damage taken on already ridiculously tanky fighters? Check! Plus, with how tanky these fighters are, you don't even need to install Expanded Deck Crew, opening up more OP or another built-in mod. Don't even need to install any PD as the Draglines with IDPAI already built in have 900 range min-Sharpshooters. Things much greater than petty pirate warlords shall be broken upon the anvil of this Mora...possibly too much for it's own good, heh.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 10:55:15 PM by The Soldier »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2021, 08:53:27 AM »

I like the concepts of the new Carrier Cores! The Bastion core especially; this really lets you build a for a battlecarrier. Slap it on a Mora with a couple Roider Rocksaw wings and a Dragline, and you've got a dangerously powerful brick that can dish out damage like no one's business, if a bit near-sighted. 50% more range on the clipped Assault Chainguns, Vulcan Cannons, and mini-Sharpshooters? Check! +50% rate of fire on the Dragline's infinite-ammo Annihilator Rocket Pod? Check! -50% damage taken on already ridiculously tanky fighters? Check! Plus, with how tanky these fighters are, you don't even need to install Expanded Deck Crew, opening up more OP or another built-in mod. Don't even need to install any PD as the Draglines with IDPAI already built in have 900 range min-Sharpshooters. Things much greater than petty pirate warlords shall be broken upon the anvil of this Mora...possibly too much for it's own good, heh.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.

Thanks for the feedback.
This mod was not balanced in regard of any mod fighters. Vanilla fighters using bastion without the range help are not doing anything useful.
If needed I may add a SO-similar range restriction to make sure mod fighters are not sniping across the map.

SO Carrier is currently asserting instant replace - the description was vague because there were several attempts but few works.
Instant replace means bombers are "replaced" as soon as their payload is dropped, making it a stream of constant fighter attack, which also justifies it's cost.
The cost of SO Carrier is not in line with cores for obvious reason - it's not a core. It also corresponds to a hidden limit that it otherwise untold: 1/2/4/6 base fighter bays for sizes. Any mod ship having beyond that fighter bay count would be considered overmodded and the mod will be providing more power than it should, so it'll just ban you from using.

For Swarm I have specified that the production power is evenly distributed among all flight decks.
The time multiplier is (base+bonus)/base, so it'll always be penalty and penalty is much harsher for low base deck ones.
For example, an Odyssey has base of 2 decks. Adding 2 using swarm core means it's replacement time is 4/2=2, doubled.
The cost *was* -/-/30/40 but 30 for a single deck on a cruiser seems too expensive for what it is.

Skirmish was the last hullmod added and TBH I like your suggestion. Still need some juggling in terms of what it can/should do and what flavor it brings.
I was already tired when designing it and I want to make the initial release have at least three flavors to choose from.
I'll need some more test play to see what numbers feel right but not overpowered. Agility is a huge deal in most situations so there must be a meaningful malus that make it a bit niche instead of straight good.

The Soldier

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2021, 11:16:44 AM »

Ahh, I misunderstood what Fighter Overclock does! It just cuts the base replacement time to 0 and reduces the replacement rate loss to 0 rather than just reducing the replacement rate loss (Expanded Deck Crews got stuck in my head). Might be better to just say "base replacement time set to 0 seconds and replacement rate never drops" or something like that. I can understand the power now; combine this with Swarm Core to nullify the replacement time nerf, get more fighters, and then just spam expendable fighters like Talons that constantly respawn with fresh ordnance. A build that even Megas would love, heh.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

Something I noticed while testing the Skirmish core, it seems bombers with unguided munitions (like Perditions or Kassadari Calivers) can't hit the side of a barn - they can't seem to compensate for the lost turn rate, and when combined with the increased speed, at least one torpedo goes way off target from each strike, even against completely stationary targets like the Tart's borg cube. Unintended side effect, though that probably works in it's favor for balancing.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 11:40:16 AM by The Soldier »
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2021, 11:52:17 AM »

Ahh, I misunderstood what Fighter Overclock does! It just cuts the base replacement time to 0 and reduces the replacement rate loss to 0 rather than just reducing the replacement rate loss (Expanded Deck Crews got stuck in my head). Might be better to just say "base replacement time set to 0 seconds and replacement rate never drops" or something like that. I can understand the power now; combine this with Swarm Core to nullify the replacement time nerf, get more fighters, and then just spam expendable fighters like Talons that constantly respawn with fresh ordnance. A build that even Megas would love, heh.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?

The flash bomber was in my mind giving that specific rate of fire buff. I’m not sure why anyone would do that but...

Thinking it twice I maybe just replace it with missile speed. I don’t think missile specialization skill and ECCM apply to fighters?
That said I’m not going to throw a hotfix for that one.
It’ll be patched along next major update.

work in progress ideas
Snipe core: increase carrier itself’s sensor range in battle, increase fighter operating range
Significantly reduced carrier max speed. However, zero-flux speed bonus is increased to compensate.

Manufactory Load Balancer: moves the fighter production rate around. If one bay is intact the production power will be utilized to assist production of other bays. (3/6/9/12)
[close]


Edit: you sure you don’t want the rescue shuttle now? Overclock talon crew loss is mind blowingly high...
I might want to go one step further doubling fighter taken damage so it’s more calculated risk instead of allowing carelessly pouring out fighters and win. However it will depend on feedback and how it would interact with other mods.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 12:43:38 PM by Sutopia »
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The Soldier

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2021, 02:10:55 PM »

Bombers with the Bastion core, not the first idea to come to mind, especially bomb-bay types.  Missile speed would be a welcome addition for just about any fighter with missiles - but make sure to reduce the missile time to live proportionally, otherwise they'll get more range.  Missile maneuverability would also be nice, if that isn't possible.

Rescue Shuttles are cheap enough and when combined with Fighter Uplink to keep crew casualties down. Or just bring along a couple Valkyries to haul along as many unwilling pilots as you need, heh. I think the PPT is harsh enough that you don't need to nerf the fighters.

I like the sounds of Manufactory Load Balancer, though it looks like it'll be another Expanded Deck Crews mod - slap it on every carrier that's got more than one flight deck. But that's more because of a complete lack of hull mods for carriers rather than the hull mod itself, and your Modern Carriers mod goes a long way to resolving some of that.

By the way, I do like the sounds of cheaper hull mods that does one specific thing rather than a package deal like the other previous ones - these follow more along the lines of regular combat ship hull mods than stuff like SO or Heavy Armor that do one specific thing, akin to the carrier cores you've got here. Might be worth pursuing more things like that so carriers are more flexible in choosing how to buff their fighters.
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Thaago

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2021, 02:20:17 PM »

Looks neat! I'll give this a download and check it out, I do love me some fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2021, 02:36:27 PM »

Looks neat! I'll give this a download and check it out, I do love me some fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.

I precluded all ships with 0 base fighter bay from installing these new hullmods because I was afraid people doing the weird trick of installing a hull mod, build the thing in and then remove the conversion mod. Especially with the swarm one, the calculation will immediately error out because attempting to divide by 0.

However I do think it’s reasonable to allow converted hangars to utilize non-swarm cores. The OP cost is very high in first place. Let me patch that up next weekend.

Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2021, 01:02:38 AM »

1.0 updated

Deageon

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2021, 02:02:23 PM »

FYI, the mod prv already did a last-stand sorta thing with their uh, gravi-something reversion core. Any destroyed carrier with the hullmod spawns a swarm-host ship to keep it's wings fighting.
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2021, 02:10:32 PM »

FYI, the mod prv already did a last-stand sorta thing with their uh, gravi-something reversion core. Any destroyed carrier with the hullmod spawns a swarm-host ship to keep it's wings fighting.
I was thinking the shard spawner equivalent, thus there is no additional host ship involved.
But since there already exists an equivalent I’ll skip on that one.

The Soldier

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 02:33:24 PM »

After putting in some more time with the Bastion Carrier Core, I've noticed some wonky behavior with it. By setting engagement range to 0, all your fighters revert to support fighter status - meaning, they completely ignore Engage orders. They'll still go up and attack a target within 500su or so using an orbit attack pattern (not the same as their usual), but you have absolutely no control over which target they're going to attack, it's like herding cats! More a vanilla issue, though. The AI also occasionally tries to set their fighters to Engage, but it doesn't do anything since they're all leashed to the carrier and they don't follow target orders.

That aside, the new hull mods look interesting. Emergency Launch Sequence for expendable fighters, and Manufactury Load Balance for when you have mixed fighters. The speed and maneuverability debuffs for Fighter Heavy Armaments are pretty harsh, though - some capital ships could outrun those fighters! The only saving grace for slow fighters that use it is that fighter speed is automatically boosted to the carrier's speed, plus 20su on top when set to Regroup so they can keep up.
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Sutopia

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2021, 03:36:31 PM »

Heavy ordnance primarily benefits bomb bay bombers as they can create a literal wall of bomb.
Torpedo bombers benefits a lot as well but will be taking much larger risk of getting shot down.
I’m still observing the balance. At one point the penalty was only 30% but it renders bombers unable to deplete bay in one approach so it got changed to 40%.

An alternative would be only bombers take 40% penalty and all others take less, making heavy fighters a bit more viable. However since some non-bomber fighters do utilize missile weaponry it makes things complicated, and I don’t want to make the mod effect extremely complicated that becomes otherwise hard to explain.

An alternative may be just separate it into two mods: heavy guns and heavy bomb bays. But then I doubt how many people would be using heavy gun if it’s not bastion, and if the heavy gun paired with skirmish just free rate of fire.

dEVoRaTriX_LuX

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Re: [0.95a] [Hullmod] Modern Carriers V1.0
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2021, 04:28:45 PM »

Sorry I'm kinda dumb but what does Manufactory Load Balance do?
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