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[Stroichik]

I suppose each person might have their own feel on what values should be, based on how they perceive game world.


For me an AI run ship is something that is highly sophisticated, very efficient and self-sufficient by default, so maintenance on those ships should'nt be any higher than any other ship, simply because they have no crew to feed and heal during trip. Lets say that inner droid repairs are equal to crew feeding and healing prices of supplies.

So when we field an AI ship i would expect it to run on top efficiency, unless it has no installed AI, or its AI level is lower than some certain threshold. Lets assume it would be Alpha core by default for any ship, so we wouldn't need to over-complicate game logic.

So if an AI ship dont have a Alpha core, or its grade is lower than Alpha - then ship should get a negative impact on its maintenance values (since AI is not smart enough to deal with self-maintaing, or there is no AI at all) and combat readiness (for same reasons).

Basically i wanted to revert your default values, so that better core = less costly to maintain, not more.

But thats my way of perceiving what an AI-run ship should be. My point of view can go against game's author thinking as well as mod author's.



Thats why i wanted to tweak those multi values a bit, to make sure that my newly acquired Radiant won't be asking for 165 supplies per month (as opposed to 39 in vanilla game, but almost 0 CR, due to 4x automated points generated from Alpha core).

[Jaghaimo]

I on the other hand would like AI core to increase fuel consumption instead. What a massive GPU requires is power. In-system it can tap solar energy (unless nebula or black hole). In hyperspace it will use some antimatter to generate energy needed.

[Yunru]

And I just want something that'll let me field all AI ships with a reasonable degree of success

[Stroichik]

i noticed, that if i enable this mod right now, install AI cores into my ships, save and disable mod. My Automated points would still be low due to mod's influence, but AI ships maintenance would still be vanilla values. Yay to that. I just need to not touch AI officers on ships, and values won't get updated to proper values.

[TobiaF]

Thanks for your suggestions everyone I'll address a couple of them right now.

So if an AI ship dont have a Alpha core, or its grade is lower than Alpha - then ship should get a negative impact on its maintenance values (since AI is not smart enough to deal with self-maintaing, or there is no AI at all) and combat readiness (for same reasons).

First of all, this. My view on AI-run ships is that they would, overall, consume a lot more energy, because you're basically stacking tonnes and tonnes of GPUs on your ship. Crypto mining here on Earth uses incredibly high amounts of energy already, and that's nothing compared to an Alpha Core, which is designed to run entire planets. So that's why I increased consumption levels with my mod.

Still, if you want to change it, you'll be able to do it through the config file in the new release later this week.

I on the other hand would like AI core to increase fuel consumption instead. What a massive GPU requires is power. In-system it can tap solar energy (unless nebula or black hole). In hyperspace it will use some antimatter to generate energy needed.

That's an interesting way to see it. I always imagined energy = supplies, basically big batteries, but using fuel is an interesting option. My only issue with it is that fuel, as a game mechanic, is strictly limited to moving around, while supplies directly impact the performance of your ships. In both cases it's just a matter of keeping your reserves topped up, but supplies are tied to more aspects of the game, so I feel it makes more sense to keep that. If you want a "fuel" option, though, I could add it for you on a later release


Finally, there's one final thing I wanted to implement, though I'm not exactly sure how necessary it is. I was thinking to reduce a ship's CR once it gets outfitted with an AI officer. That way, to regain maximum CR, the player will actually have to use some supplies. This is to prevent people from just using cores right before battles and removing them as soon as they're done. Something like reducing CR to 1% so it has to be brought back up to its usual values. What would you think about that?

[Jaghaimo]

That's an interesting way to see it. I always imagined energy = supplies, basically big batteries, but using fuel is an interesting option. My only issue with it is that fuel, as a game mechanic, is strictly limited to moving around, while supplies directly impact the performance of your ships. In both cases it's just a matter of keeping your reserves topped up, but supplies are tied to more aspects of the game, so I feel it makes more sense to keep that. If you want a "fuel" option, though, I could add it for you on a later release

Yes please, a config to use fuel instead of supplies would be amazing. Perhaps something along:

Code

{
// The numbers here are arbitrary and serve no real purpose ;)
alphaExtraSupplies: 3,
betaExtraSupplies: 2,
gammaExtraSupplies: 1,
alphaExtraFuel: 0,
betaExtraFuel: 0,
gammaExtraFuel: 0,
}

Could accept negative values for people that want AI core to actually IMPROVE usage (say less supplies but more fuel).

Could be a percentage instead. In case of percentage, 1 means unchanged, 0.9 is 90% (so lower), and 1.1 would be 110%.

Finally, there's one final thing I wanted to implement, though I'm not exactly sure how necessary it is. I was thinking to reduce a ship's CR once it gets outfitted with an AI officer. That way, to regain maximum CR, the player will actually have to use some supplies. This is to prevent people from just using cores right before battles and removing them as soon as they're done. Something like reducing CR to 1% so it has to be brought back up to its usual values. What would you think about that?

I'd apply "refit in space" penalty whenever you swap AI core officer in space (and make it not applicable when doing while docked?).

[TobiaF]

Yes please, a config to use fuel instead of supplies would be amazing. Perhaps something along:

Code

{
// The numbers here are arbitrary and serve no real purpose ;)
alphaExtraSupplies: 3,
betaExtraSupplies: 2,
gammaExtraSupplies: 1,
alphaExtraFuel: 0,
betaExtraFuel: 0,
gammaExtraFuel: 0,
}

Could accept negative values for people that want AI core to actually IMPROVE usage (say less supplies but more fuel).

I'm already doing something like that for supplies. Adding fuel to it would require me to change things in more files, so I'll leave it for the next iteration of the mod (right now I just want to make it compatible with the new game patch as soon as my thesis allows). I'll definitely add it, though. Feel free to add me on Discord if you'd like early access to it, I could send it to you as soon as that specific feature is ready (while I'll still be working on other stuff). My Discord is Toby#2057

I'd apply "refit in space" penalty whenever you swap AI core officer in space (and make it not applicable when doing while docked?).

That's a great idea! Just need to figure out how to proc that, but it shouldn't be that hard to achieve.

[Stroichik]

Finally, there's one final thing I wanted to implement, though I'm not exactly sure how necessary it is. I was thinking to reduce a ship's CR once it gets outfitted with an AI officer. That way, to regain maximum CR, the player will actually have to use some supplies. This is to prevent people from just using cores right before battles and removing them as soon as they're done. Something like reducing CR to 1% so it has to be brought back up to its usual values. What would you think about that?

Well, isn't vanilla already affects CR? if i dont have AI core, i get too many automated ships points and my CR goes down. For me right now i dont need to remove AI officer, since only they keep my AI ships' CR high enough.

Reducing AS points is basically the only thing that i wanted. If config will let me adjust values of maintenance multi, so that it could reduce costs to more vanilla values - i`m happy. I`ll adjust it the way, so that no core would give negative bonus to maintenance, and getting better cores will reduce that negative.

[TobiaF]

Well, isn't vanilla already affects CR? if i dont have AI core, i get too many automated ships points and my CR goes down. For me right now i dont need to remove AI officer, since only they keep my AI ships' CR high enough.

Yes, but I also want it to happen if you're below your automated points limit, and you're installing the core just for the AI officer skills.

Reducing AS points is basically the only thing that i wanted. If config will let me adjust values of maintenance multi, so that it could reduce costs to more vanilla values - i`m happy. I`ll adjust it the way, so that no core would give negative bonus to maintenance, and getting better cores will reduce that negative.

You'll definitely be able to do that with the new version I'll be posting later this week

[Jaghaimo]

That's a great idea! Just need to figure out how to proc that, but it shouldn't be that hard to achieve.

From quick look at the API there's nothing to fire off when refitting happens. I'd therefore use listeners that fire when core UI opens (refit screen being one of them): https://jaghaimo.github.io/starsector-api/interfacecom_1_1fs_1_1starfarer_1_1api_1_1campaign_1_1listeners_1_1CampaignInputListener.html

• Pre core - snapshot automated ships officers
• Post core - snapshot again, for any differences apply CR penalty

Edit: never used this listener, but it LOOKS like it could work. Unless "core" here means something different. If not, EveryFrameScript is an option as well, albeit awfully inefficient for this.

[TobiaF]

That's a great idea! Just need to figure out how to proc that, but it shouldn't be that hard to achieve.

From quick look at the API there's nothing to fire off when refitting happens. I'd therefore use listeners that fire when core UI opens (refit screen being one of them): https://jaghaimo.github.io/starsector-api/interfacecom_1_1fs_1_1starfarer_1_1api_1_1campaign_1_1listeners_1_1CampaignInputListener.html

• Pre core - snapshot automated ships officers
• Post core - snapshot again, for any differences apply CR penalty

Edit: never used this listener, but it LOOKS like it could work. Unless "core" here means something different. If not, EveryFrameScript is an option as well, albeit awfully inefficient for this.

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look at it when I can!

[Yunru]

Finally, there's one final thing I wanted to implement, though I'm not exactly sure how necessary it is. I was thinking to reduce a ship's CR once it gets outfitted with an AI officer. That way, to regain maximum CR, the player will actually have to use some supplies. This is to prevent people from just using cores right before battles and removing them as soon as they're done. Something like reducing CR to 1% so it has to be brought back up to its usual values. What would you think about that?

Why not make it require the cores be integrated for the (full) benefit?

[Grizzlyadamz]

Thanks for making this!

Personally, I'm in the camp that automated ships shouldn't be more expensive to maintain than organic-crewed ships that actually need regular food & *supplies*. Toiletries, bubblegum, air, etc. Drones just need parts and metal, same as a regular ship with no extra organic stuff on top.
Instead, if automated ships really need to be balanced, I'd double their CR usage & halve their recovery speed, with full integration relieving that. Explain it as a hiccup in the automated repair infrastructure due to keeping the core modular, and the difficulty human crews have when servicing a ship clearly designed to be self-sufficient.

Frankly though, I'm just glad I can actually field my small drone wing at all now- the multiplier applied when attaching AI cores took me completely off-guard and turned my 52dp 1 light cruiser 1 destroyer and 3 frigate mop-up crew into a 172dp nightmare. That's *WAY* overtuned imo. Basically precludes putting an alpha into anything bigger than a frigate, and where's the fun in that?!

[TobiaF]

Why not make it require the cores be integrated for the (full) benefit?

Because I feel like it would make the mod's use feel too "niche." As in, I personally like to swap cores around depending on need, and if I required integration I might as well just not use it.

Personally, I'm in the camp that automated ships shouldn't be more expensive to maintain than organic-crewed ships that actually need regular food & *supplies*. Toiletries, bubblegum, air, etc. Drones just need parts and metal, same as a regular ship with no extra organic stuff on top.

Well, consider that automated ships already need supplies. I'd equate supplies to energy reserves. Or, at least, I'd say that energy reserves are part of what constitutes a unit of supplies, as well as spare equipment and replacement parts for when a ship is damaged.

nstead, if automated ships really need to be balanced, I'd double their CR usage & halve their recovery speed, with full integration relieving that.

Do you mean "double their CP usage"? Because if that's the gase, I think that goes against the narrative of my mod (cores on ships making said ships more self-sufficient in terms of logistics). If  it wasn't a typo, then I'm not sure I get what you mean.
And about halving recovery speed, I think that would be a bit too boring. It's something that I might consider adding, but I think "time spent waiting" isn't something I want to mess with too much.

[TobiaF]

v1.2 is up!

Changelog:
- Updated values and calculations to adapt to patch 0.95.1a-RC6
- Added a modifier to AP reduction based on hull size (sorry, running 12 Radiants per fleet would've been a bit too much)
- Added settings file for customisation