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Author Topic: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor  (Read 330 times)

Lorebot

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 02:14:46 PM »

The final applied damage counts as hitting hull.  You are not hitting armor.  There is no -25% damage from Impact mitigation for example.

Maybe this will clarify.  The calculations we've presented are the equivalent when hitting hull with fragmentation damage of doing the following:

Multiply by 25%, determine armor mitigation and apply, and then multiply by 4 at the end, because you're hitting hull, and not armor.  The 25% factor is undone.

The same is true for kinetic.

Multiply by 50%, determine armor mitigation and apply, and then multiply by 2 at the end, because you're hitting hull, and not armor.  The 50% factor is undone.

So you treat it as hull, but you will never do full listed damage as per the weapon description against any target's hull unless it starts with 0 armor, as there is currently always some mitigation.
Thank you. I think the miscommunication is about my use of the term 'full damage' which to me means 100% of base damage being applied before mitigation. A Kinetic weapon hitting Armor is doing 'half damage' to me, it would deal 'full damage' against Hull and 'double damage' against Shields. I understand that each situation has it's own damage reduction mechanics, but the damage type itself is reduced or increased based on what type of structure it's hitting before any other mitigation is applied. The question wasn't about 'mitigation' it was about 'what type of structure is the weapon hitting' because the wiki and the guy on discord both implied to me that there was no way to deal damage against Hull anymore because of the 'minimum armor value' mechanic treating everything as hitting Armor even after the Armor had been stripped.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 03:02:00 PM »

In that case, then basically,  all damage types apply 100% of their damage to hull. I think the confusing part may be that even when they're hitting hull, damage reduction (the x/(x+y) bit) still applies, and it's as if it's being applied against armor (5% of base armor once armor is gone).

Since frag has a hit str that's 25% against armor, the damage reduction can still be pretty significant even though it applies all its damage to hull.
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Thaago

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2021, 04:18:55 PM »

Armor is pretty nuanced and confusing. For another layer of confusion, in the real game the armor grid splits the damage into an area, with the outer ring of the area both contributing half armor value and taking half armor damage. A single shot can be doing hull damage and armor damage at the same time. Fun! We usually are lazy around here though and either theorycraft as if its a single impact spot or we count in game shots/record the time to kill.
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RustyCabbage

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2021, 05:50:23 PM »

Hm, looks like you've got the idea at this point, but how's this for an explanation:

A weapon's damage can be thought of as being split into two cases: the actual weapon damage and that weapon's damage vs armor
where weapon damage changes depending on if you're hitting armor, hull or shields and damage vs armor is a constant equal to weapon damage * [damage type multiplier for armor].

Typically, the damage of a shot looks like

weapon damage * (damage vs armor) / (armor + damage vs armor)

When you're using an HE weapon against armor, you're dealing 2x weapon damage and 2x damage vs armor.
When you start hitting hull/residual armor, you only do 1x weapon damage, but you keep the 2x damage vs armor.

Thus, when a frag weapon is hitting hull/residual armor, it deals 1x weapon damage, but still 0.25x damage vs armor.

Fenrir

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #19 on: Today at 12:43:12 AM »

When hitting hull, whether armor stripped or not, the applied damage, after reduction calculation, will first apply to remaining armor hp and any excess will be applied to hull. If the armor has been completely destroyed, in other words with 0 remaining hp, full applied damage will go to hull without "additionally being taken by minimum armor".
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Fenrir

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Re: Confusion about damage types and stripped armor
« Reply #20 on: Today at 12:49:31 AM »

Armor is pretty nuanced and confusing. For another layer of confusion, in the real game the armor grid splits the damage into an area, with the outer ring of the area both contributing half armor value and taking half armor damage. A single shot can be doing hull damage and armor damage at the same time. Fun! We usually are lazy around here though and either theorycraft as if its a single impact spot or we count in game shots/record the time to kill.
adds that the "ghost" armor exists, which is armor tiles not a full square or don't theoretically exists as they should be empty spaces (eg. out side the ships boarder where shown as transparent void) that all do take part in damage mechanism. Actually I believe them "armor at bottom of ship not shown on sprite".
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