Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Carriers mid-late game  (Read 9814 times)

WeiTuLo

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2021, 08:15:04 PM »

The 4x Reapers landed after the kill or hit debris. Only one Reaper actually hit anything.

Just did a 460 DP bounty with 6 Onslaughts and 1 Legion:
Drover: 100k damage, 73 DP worth of kills
XIV Legion: 179k damage, 108 DP worth of kills

This was with 0 player piloting, initial capture point orders, and 1 order given (to retreat Wolf that had 100hp left). Fleet wound up edge camping by the 3rd Onslaught. XIV spent about 60% of the fight getting to the front line. Drover outdamaged the Apogees, which did about 50k each and 15 and 33 DP worth of kills each. 7 fighter bays total in fleet.

Drover did its job of threatening capitals really well. 98k Cobra damage, 1.4k harpoon damage. Legion did a good job once it got to where it should be. Likely to replace Legion with Drover.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 08:41:01 PM by WeiTuLo »
Logged

Arcagnello

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • Arguably Heretical, Definetly Insane
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2021, 12:44:38 AM »

Thanks. I promise i will try this in the next playthrough with fresh officers.

I'm planning to roleplay as Ludd's Hammer play as an actual luddite next campaign, I've got a modpack with around 29 mods that massively expand vanilla and are set up to not add any additional factions in the game.

Man, if only the Ship/Weapon pack was ready for 0.95, I miss the Plasma Flamer  :'(

Quote
Oh, and, what's ligma? Who's joe and there bofa is it with etma?

I see you know the source material, but this is the sacred testament I'm referring to, go at 6:44
Spoiler
[close]

The 4x Reapers landed after the kill or hit debris. Only one Reaper actually hit anything.

Just did a 460 DP bounty with 6 Onslaughts and 1 Legion:
Drover: 100k damage, 73 DP worth of kills
XIV Legion: 179k damage, 108 DP worth of kills

This was with 0 player piloting, initial capture point orders, and 1 order given (to retreat Wolf that had 100hp left). Fleet wound up edge camping by the 3rd Onslaught. XIV spent about 60% of the fight getting to the front line. Drover outdamaged the Apogees, which did about 50k each and 15 and 33 DP worth of kills each. 7 fighter bays total in fleet.

Drover did its job of threatening capitals really well. 98k Cobra damage, 1.4k harpoon damage. Legion did a good job once it got to where it should be. Likely to replace Legion with Drover.

There are very few ships that can actually use Reaper Launchers effectively, almost none of them are capitals, the best capital to slap Reaper launchers of any kind into is the Radiant that can fit two Large launchers on turrets but that also litterally tends to teleport in the face of the enemy and shoot them at almost point blank range.

The only two other capitals that can do somewhat well with dumb fire torpedoes are
1)Ultra short range Onslaught with Ligma, the reckless officer that gets it close to the enemy and then blasts it with Annihalator rockets, Reaper Launchers or Hammer pods until it's dead
2)A dedicated anti-frigate/aggression focused Conquest that has kinetic weapons on both broadsides, auxiliary thrusters and two hammer Barrages at the front. The AI actually uses it rather well with just one broadside but it's really best used in your hands.

I'm actually in the process of updating my "Silence of the Artificially Intelligent Lambs" thread but I'll show you some screenshots of my XIV Legion doing the work of Ludd and making the Persean Sector a better place, one AI waifu on the burning stake at a time:
It makes for an amazing escort to defense-focused capitals
Spoiler
[close]
It's consistently the ship doing the most damage when I deploy it against difficult enemies
Spoiler
[close]
Spoiler
[close]
Just..uh...don't take it when fighting an angry mob of S-modded phase ships, mkay?  :-X (spoilers ahead btw)
Spoiler
[close]
It does rather well even in that situation tough, long range force projection is great in almost every scenario.
Spoiler
[close]
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 12:47:39 AM by Arcagnello »
Logged
Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

bobucles

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2021, 04:28:53 AM »

Normal ships got stronger thanks to s-mods and skills, while carriers got weaker at the same time. Carriers effectively got double nerfed, but they were never crazy enough to need a double nerf.

Carriers would probably be fine if they kept the old hangar hull mods. Carriers can't gain too much from s-mods, because most of them are direct combat skills and carriers will never be good in direct combat. They would have scaled far less than regular ships, allowing them to catch up.

Djata

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2021, 06:27:14 AM »

Dunno, feels like fighters were nerfed across the board so you need to put more care into your carrier loadout and coordinate which fighters go where, but they certainly don't feel useless past early game. I wish you could command individual squadrons though to coordinate strikes better, but that's just me.

I really like how Archean Order does fighters, they're more numerous and faster than vanilla, but unless they're bombers they don't do much direct damage, but they get huge damage boosts against weapons and engines so they're good for disabling ships.
Logged

WeiTuLo

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2021, 04:41:16 PM »

Battle Results vs Luddpic Path Low-Tech station + Light Fleet:

XIV Legion: 9 DP killed, 37k damage
Cobra Drover: 21 DP killed, 53k damage

Ships involved:
Radiant
Apogee
Apogee
XIV Legion
Cobra Drover
SO HH Flagship for hunting down stragglers/flankers

Battle Results vs 2 Atlas bounty 192 DP:

XIV Legion: 2 DP killed, 1600 damage
Cobra Drover: 5 DP killed, 15k damage


Battle Results vs Sub Ordos 156 DP, no radiants:

XIV Legion: 4 DP killed, 12k damage
Cobra Drover: 0 DP killed, 4k damage


Battle Results vs Ordos 312 DP, 2 radiants, 8 brilliants:

XIV Legion: 42 DP killed, 89k damage
Cobra Drover: 7 DP killed, 18k damage
I deployed my flagship and stole a Brilliant kill from my Drover I think. I Reapered it before its Reapers landed. Lost 1 Omen in the fight.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 06:07:41 PM by WeiTuLo »
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2021, 05:32:44 PM »

Whats your legion build? I scrolled back but didn't find it... I feel like we should be able to do a lot better than that because the rest of your fleet isn't crazy fast. I feel like it should be shooting things as well.
Logged

WeiTuLo

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2021, 05:58:48 PM »

Fleet aside from Drover/Legion:

Radiant, Alpha Cored with Systems Expertise
2 Apogees, piloted
SO Hammerhead Flagship
Afflictor with phase pilot
Backup afflictor for chases
2 Scarabs with pilots
LP Brawler with pilot
2 Omens, piloted
Lumen with Gamma Core, undergoing testing
3 Wolves, leftover from when the pilots piloted wolves, sometimes used as backup/alternate/sabot truck
1 Monitor as backup/swap in for pilot if really needed, does fine on its own
1 Colossus
1 Phaeton for collecting looted fuel, new addition that will be removed


Legion XIV:
Captain does not have helmsmanship
Top speed 28
8 caps
28 vents, 10 flux above full weapon flux

Weapons:
2 Hurricanes, ECCMed and extended missile racks
3 HVDs, 1 Mauler, 1 Dual Flak, ITUed

Bomber LPCs:
2 Longbows, a Khopesh to give PD stuff to shoot at, and 1 Dagger

The Legion costs 15 fuel/LY at base, so that's a big factor in replacing it. The frigates already tear most sub-caps into scrap and the Apogees provide excellent support.

Fought another Ordo, 1 radiant 4 brilliants, 282 DP:
Very few orders given, did not deploy flagship

XIV Legion: 26 DP killed, 57k damage
Drover: 7 DP killed, 30k damage

Observations:
Much higher casualties than usual
Omen 1 died to 3x autopulsers on Radiant
Second Omen also died, not sure to what
Brawler ran out of PPT and died when I wasn't paying attention
2 Frigates and 2 Apogees were ahead of Legion in damage
Lumen teleported in between Radiant-Radiant fight, died really fast to autopulsers
No wolves died, even when unpiloted. Wolves have been very survivable, historically
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 06:39:45 PM by WeiTuLo »
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2021, 06:30:45 PM »

Hmm, have you considered using heavy fighters instead of bombers on it? 5x HVD (vulcans for the gaps though 2 can usually be left off), 2 broadswords and 2 claws is a pretty nasty setup to complement the Hurricanes. Since the ship doesn't have a fighter ship system I don't think the bombers get max value, and that would save 20 OP for more flux/gun.

Another suggestion would be to go 4x Khopesh, which are just generally superior kill bombers than Daggers. What I did for my regular Legion was even crazier: I went 2 Talons 2 Gladii, Mjolnir + Mk IX, but I didn't have frigates so needed those interceptors for dealing with enemy frigates.

Basically... I think longbows are overrated for mixed gun carriers. If its engaging with its kinetics, any enemy smaller than a capital's shields go down fast, and if it is a capital then it can't get away from the HE swarm anyways.
Logged

Satirical

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2021, 07:07:53 PM »

reapers are also good for station busting on the onslaught
Logged

WeiTuLo

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
Re: Carriers mid-late game
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2021, 07:13:17 PM »

The XIV Legion barely gets to engage most of the time. It was very useful in 0.91 because I would set two fixed defend points slightly ahead of a middle capture point and it would hold the line with maybe a Paragon beside it, one Astral following each, and 1-2 spark carriers per Astral. Later, in 0.91a, I replaced the Legion and sometimes the Paragon with an Apogee each.

I often use Longbows and Atropos bombers because they can launch from behind friendly ships' shields. The closer to the frontlines the enemy is, the faster the sorties. Fighters I would bring in on dedicated ships, but this patch they don't do much or live very long so they're mostly phased out except for a Wasp. I suppose Broadswords hurt a bit for as long as they live.

Now the battlefield is a lot more fluid, point defense is a lot stronger, and fighter/bombers a lot weaker.  Especially against Ordos, anything unable to phase, dodge, or teleport out of the way is dead unless it has fortress shields, SO, or a very good shield.

Vs Derelict Bounty Fleet, 289 DP:
3 Guardians, 15 Ramparts

XIV Legion: 67 DP killed, 163k damage
Drover: 21 DP killed, 67k damage

No losses this time

Vs Pirate Bounty, 5 Onslaughts 1 Legion 404 DP:

XIV Legion: 52 DP killed, 91k damage
Drover: 43 DP killed, 68k damage
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 08:19:59 PM by WeiTuLo »
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]