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Yes he should.

10 (55.6%)

No, that's for pantsies. A real man shaves with Tachyon Lances.

4 (22.2%)

I don't care, just stop burning AI waifus at the stake you Ludd-For-Brains monster!

4 (22.2%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: July 11, 2021, 03:48:11 PM

[Arcagnello]

I'm in the process of finishing up my third campaign and I may have just realized that I should stop integrating militarized subsystems into my civilian ships for late game:




I've got 260 Deployment Points worth of actual combat ships, but an additional 86 Deployment Points of Militarized Civilian Ships is putting a rather large dent in my 3, very important Commander Skills improving damage, flux stats and maximum CR.
I'm not even playing a campaign in which CR is vital (one with Derelict Contingent above all others) and I'm already in the process of refitting the entirety of my utility flotilla (exept the ones in which I've spent a story point to integrate M. Subsystems in, because I'm a dumb Luddite) by the time I get to the good story stuff.


I can see the counterargument of wanting to militarize civilian ships for early game combat prowess, halfed signature and not increasing maintenance costs by 50% upon installing capacity hullmods, but do you really need that late game?

You don't need militarized ships in combat unless you're attempting the mother of all cheeses using Derelict Contingent and some mod-derived hullmods like Collapsed Cargo Holds to create the mother of all tanks in combat most of the time.

You don't need a lower signature considering that by the time you start fielding Atlases and Promethei any sort of stealth play has gone out of the window (you can also install Insulated Engine Assembly for the above mentioned capital haulers to have the same exact 150 signature as capitals anyway)

You may not even need increased crew, cargo or fuel capacity since the game now favors relatively smaller combat fleets, which leaves plenty spare fleet size for a girthy utility flotilla. I've been discovering the joy of slapping Efficiency Overhaul/Augmented Drive Fields/Solar Shielding/Insulated Engine assembly/Surveying Equipment on my civ boys instead and I got to admit I've beenf eeling pretty darn good about it,  without needing extra capacity in the slightest.


Thoughts about this? Am I the one special Starfarer in the sector that just realized that he maybe, maybe should stop militarizing everything in sight now that there are Commander skills that get diminishing returns based on how many militarized ship DP you're above the limit?

Edit: I've forgot how to do a poll. Ludd save me, I need sleep.

Edit 2: I have now seen it. Into Bed I go. See you tomorrow!

[IonDragonX]

I can see the counterargument of wanting to militarize civilian ships for early game combat prowess, halfed signature and not increasing maintenance costs by 50% upon installing capacity hullmods, but do you really need that late game?

The real counterargument is the Bulk Transport skill. It almost replaces the need for logistics ships entirely, especially if you start with Apogee. A single SP specs out of it late game...

[Arcagnello]

I can see the counterargument of wanting to militarize civilian ships for early game combat prowess, halfed signature and not increasing maintenance costs by 50% upon installing capacity hullmods, but do you really need that late game?

The real counterargument is the Bulk Transport skill. It almost replaces the need for logistics ships entirely, especially if you start with Apogee. A single SP specs out of it late game...

Oh, see what happens when I'm tired? I've even forgot about the only good late game Industry skill besides Derelict Contingent. I'm always picking it as second skill after Tech 1.

Bulk transport is not only amazing for the improved cargo, it even pushes both capital class haulers to burn 7, therefore making Militarized Subsystems in them useless if you've got capitals like Legion or Onslaught that keep that speed aswell.

Another thing I forgot to mention is the two new Phase logistics ships, the Phantom and The Revenant. While I will agree both of them (especially the Phantom and its amazing 200 ground support, altough I wish it was a bigger troop transport) have their niche role to fill, the fact they already come Militarized really disincentives their use in late game.

Making them Civilian (or even better, give them a "Military Logistics" Hullmod instead which takes them out combat DP calculations) would be a really good thing for them, especially considering they have 0 signature and they very likely will not be part of the 5 ships with the most detection.

[Satirical]

But my sensor range

[SCC]

When I realised militarising ships steals my fleetwide bonuses, I stopped doing that entirely.

[AcaMetis]

Militarized civilian ships shouldn't count as combat ships in the first place, not unless they're actual combat ships (Atlas MK. II, Prometheus MK. II, Venture, Gemini, Shepard, etc.) or have Assault/Escort Package. I mean an Atlas has...the armor of a Wayfarer, the flux stats of an Enforcer, the top speed of an Onslaught, a worse shield than an Atlas MK. II and the armaments of a Hermes, on a capital ship's profile. That is, needless to say, really bad. That's not a combat ship by any stretch of any definition, not unless you're unbelievably desperate.

Of course things could still be worse. Having any sort of armaments whatsoever is more than the poor Salvaging Rig can brag about...

[Phenir]

But my sensor range

Just use insulated engines.
I stopped militarizing civ ships when I realized the only reason I was doing so was for burn and the sensor profile. Bulk transport or augmented drives or tugs takes care of the first and insulated engines takes care of the latter.

[intrinsic_parity]

Insulated engines doesn't buff sensor range, just reduces engine profile, so you need 5 combat ships of the same class for it to work. I like to use colossus before I have 5 cruisers and Prometheus without capital ships, so I end up using MS. Also tugs have atrocious sensor profiles too so you make the problem worse by using them.

I definitely try to minimize MS usage, but there's tons of situations where I can't really get over the sensor issues.

[KDR_11k]

When I'm worried about sensors I'm usually carrying all my cargo and fuel in Revenants anyway. When I already have a bunch of capital ships or cruisers in my fleet then the profile is gonna be bad no matter what anyway.

[Ad Astra]

Diminishing returns caused by DP bloat isn't worth the extra capacity, leaving the cargo ships with civilian hulls isn't generally a problem since you are either running a massive fleet or have some specialized phase nonsense with revenants and phantoms.

However the true Ludd fearing, gate smashing, prometheus bonking, follower of the path, puts logistic hullmods in military ships and then  only fields the System Override+expanded missile racks+shield shunt civilian ships. Military ships are wicked deviations of the non-believers my brothers and sisters! Fie on them! Fie!

[Arcagnello]

Diminishing returns caused by DP bloat isn't worth the extra capacity, leaving the cargo ships with civilian hulls isn't generally a problem since you are either running a massive fleet or have some specialized phase nonsense with revenants and phantoms.

However the true Ludd fearing, gate smashing, prometheus bonking, follower of the path, puts logistic hullmods in military ships and then  only fields the System Override+expanded missile racks+shield shunt civilian ships. Military ships are wicked deviations of the non-believers my brothers and sisters! Fie on them! Fie!

May the road always be clear to you, and may the Path lead you to the light and into the loving arms of Ludd!

[WeiTuLo]

Installing Militarized Subsystems, building in one of the packages, then uninstalling Militarized Subsystems still works in RC15, so if I decide to start a new playthrough I might do that and see how it goes (current one is for science).