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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hostile Activity (09/01/22)

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Author Topic: Tempest Nerf Options  (Read 9246 times)

Igncom1

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2021, 01:20:05 PM »

Isn't the Enforcer the same DP as it?  :P
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Grievous69

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2021, 01:21:19 PM »

I also don't understand the need of a nerf, sure the high tech frigates are scary now but that's purely because of the skills. Scarab is also crazy good, Omen as well (now that needs a nerf), Hyperion is bonkers as hell, and so on. The furthest I'd go with a Tempest nerf is a system change from HEF to Reserve deployment as was suggested in the thread already. Anything more and I wouldn't use the ship anymore honestly, since there are better options right now.

And yes it needs competition, midline frigates are lame, low tech might as well not exist.

@Igncom1
Enforcer is 9 DP, but yeah pretty damn close.
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Soda Savvy

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2021, 01:29:58 PM »

I agree with Grievous69. Tempest is fun as is, and is honestly only 'overpowered' because there's nothing else other than high tech frigates to compete with it.

Everything else needs to be brought up to par.

Skills can make it a bit silly, but skills make everything a bit silly at the moment.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2021, 01:47:11 PM »

I think scarab and shrike are very similar value to the tempest at the same DP. I'd like to see other ships brought to that level instead of just nerfing tempest. It could be reigned in a little maybe (I think changing one slot to small, or removing one drone would be more appropriate), but it doesn't need to get bashed into the ground IMO. I've actually started preferring scarabs to tempests if I get a few spare Omega weapons.
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Thaago

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2021, 01:58:57 PM »

Enforcer is 9 and pretty good this patch. Its not hunting things like a Tempest is but with the buffs this version its a tough brick with low firepower and high missiles. Now if the Enforcer could get Damper field instead of burn drive... now that would be something! (It would be silly is what it would be. 12 DP?)

On Tempest topic: I suppose the question is what way is it too strong? If its too strong in raw firepower, then I like the idea of giving it reserve deployment and leaning into the drones. That would be a kind of down and sidegrade rather than pure down like flares would be.
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tseikk1

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2021, 02:08:10 PM »

Yeah, I don't think the tempest is in need of ANOTHER nerf either. it's small shield means it's surprisingly vulnerable, and the EWM nerf hit it really hard since it was one of the best users of that skill. I've actually started to prefer the scarab over the tempest in the mid to late game, simply because the scarab is just so much more survivable.

Now the omen, thats a ship in need of a nerf. It's actually insane how undercosted it is; a WOLF is more expensive than it.
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Megas

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2021, 03:24:47 PM »

Joke answer:  Turn Tempest into a destroyer so that it is vulnerable to the extra damage vs. big ship skills... and no longer benefit from frigate skills.

Does Tempest really need to be nerfed?  It is pricey, and if I want something overpowered for 8 DP, there is Afflictor...
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Drone_Fragger

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2021, 04:43:31 PM »

High energy focus is kinda OP on it. The drones are honestly fine - They can't fly around like fighters instantly killing everything anymore.

I guess maybe replace high energy focus with something like plasma jets like the aurora has but then reduce it's base mobility to compensate? so it's still fast a ***, but it has a cooldown to play around for it.
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Amazigh

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2021, 05:30:15 PM »

I guess maybe replace high energy focus with something like plasma jets like the aurora has but then reduce it's base mobility to compensate? so it's still fast a ***, but it has a cooldown to play around for it.
I like the idea of giving it reserve deployment and leaning into the drones. That would be a kind of down and sidegrade rather than pure down like flares would be.

Either of these would be a fair change imo. (personally reserve deployment sounds like it'd be more in line with the concept of the tempest)

Regardless of what nerf (if any) is picked for the tempest, I think making it a "down and sidegrade" as Thaago said is important, wouldn't be fun to just make the ship worse, but if it's a change that makes the Tempest slightly better in some other area to compensate for whatever aspect of the ship is nerfed it'd be nice.
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Euripides

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2021, 08:06:03 PM »

It's good because its fast with 2 medium energy mounts
Its ability and its drones could be removed and it wouldn't change how good it is.

Anyway this is a single player game these kinds of things dont need balance, we need more interesting features and gameplay mechanics instead of fiddling around with whether x frigate is balanced or not
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Retry

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2021, 08:40:34 PM »

Uh, that would definitely change how good it is.

Without the drones, the Tempest becomes nearly defenseless against both fighters and missiles, unless 1 of the 2 medium slots are sacrificed for a (bad) energy PD gun.

HEF is a force multiplier, +50% energy damage for a short period of time, which translates to 1.5x shield damage, about 2x armor damage, and a little over 1.5x hull damage.  IOW, those 2 energy slots hit like anywhere from 3 to 4 energy slots for a short time window, and the Tempest loves short-time windows.

Plasma Jets doesn't sound like a good idea.  Tempests would become less fatal, yes.  They'd also become far slippier and more annoying to catch in the first place.  Even if I agreed with the premise that Tempests should be nerfed, I wouldn't want a change to Plasma Jets simply because that sounds almost as annoying as trying to catch and kill old Hyperions.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2021, 08:46:03 PM »

I agree that this feels like we are nerfing the best instead of boosting up the worst. Like Grievous said, Midtech frigates are lame and low tech has just the lasher, which is ok after IAM is removed from the LP lasher. 
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Lucky33

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2021, 10:32:22 PM »

Stop. Nerfing. Stuff.

Like really.

Just stop.
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SCC

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2021, 11:42:50 PM »

Putting plasma jets on the Tempest would make it just a more expensive Brawler (TT).

KDR_11k

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Re: Tempest Nerf Options
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2021, 02:37:37 AM »

Nerfing the Tempest won't make people pick more cheaper frigates since everything in .95 revolves around officers and fewer, more expensive ships = more DP piloted by officers. Maybe if Wolfpack Tactics didn't require officers in those frigates to make them guaranteed recoveries then you could use some un"manned" frigates to support your fleet and recover them after they get destroyed.
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