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Author Topic: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.  (Read 1337 times)

psyx

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Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« on: April 29, 2021, 06:15:32 AM »

^title. Rather than completely disabling this option (that was obviously unbalanced because SO cost much more OP than any other hullmod), just make it cost more story points. This game already have some options that cost several story points, so it could be this too.
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Arcagnello

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2021, 08:28:39 AM »

^title. Rather than completely disabling this option (that was obviously unbalanced because SO cost much more OP than any other hullmod), just make it cost more story points. This game already have some options that cost several story points, so it could be this too.

This was one of the many suggesstions in the SO discussion thread down to the bottom of the first suggestion threads page, which started even before SO got rebalanced in the latest(ish) hotfix (and that I'm suggesting you to read, it's quite constructive). I'm under the impression that simply disabling Safety Overrides for ship integration was just a duct tape fix and that we're hopefully going to see the real overhaul of the hullmod some time soon, as it seems way too brutish and simplistic for the likes of Alex and the team ;)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 08:33:33 AM by Arcagnello »
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Linguistie

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2021, 08:30:44 AM »

I think 2 story points are not that difficult to grind, so there's pretty much no difference in terms of balance one it comes to how much you spend.
But making it take 2 'build-in slots' would be a much better solution.
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Drazan

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2021, 08:38:50 AM »

For me lorevise "buliding in" hullmods means that you make it part of the ship, it cannot be removed and changed anymore. And it makes sense for most of the hullmods, for example heavy armor, hardened shield etc. But how do you build in a safety override? That hullmod doesnt cost ordenance points, beacuse it takes up place in the ship, it costs OP beacuse the several modifications disable those part of the ship.
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Thaago

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2021, 10:41:44 AM »

I think part of the problem was that SO is so much more expensive than other hullmods so building it in was much more powerful. But also the primary drawback of SO (performance time) was mostly removed this version due to skills (massive time increase +25% reduction in tick down rate that stacks with hardened subsystems)... without that being addressed I don't see how SO can be built in without some other major changes.
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psyx

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2021, 11:17:20 AM »

This was one of the many suggesstions in the SO discussion thread down to the bottom of the first suggestion threads page, which started even before SO got rebalanced in the latest(ish) hotfix (and that I'm suggesting you to read, it's quite constructive). I'm under the impression that simply disabling Safety Overrides for ship integration was just a duct tape fix and that we're hopefully going to see the real overhaul of the hullmod some time soon, as it seems way too brutish and simplistic for the likes of Alex and the team ;)
Ouh. I checked relevent threads and apparently missed that. I hope this change will take another look, such simple solution is quite boring and reduces usefulness of non-capital ships.

I think part of the problem was that SO is so much more expensive than other hullmods so building it in was much more powerful. But also the primary drawback of SO (performance time) was mostly removed this version due to skills (massive time increase +25% reduction in tick down rate that stacks with hardened subsystems)... without that being addressed I don't see how SO can be built in without some other major changes.
Means to fight SO drawbacks were not only added, but also removed. There was a skill that was reducing thresholds of malfunction, skill that was reducing chance of malfunction at low CR. Both were very helpful in making SO ships more durable in battle.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2021, 12:30:24 PM »

The biggest benefit of that skill for SO ships is reducing the rate that CR decays after PPT runs out IMO.
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Euripides

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2021, 05:34:21 PM »

Story points shouldn't be spent to build in hull mods at all

This gameplay change only revealed an inherent problem with hull mods - you are fighting for weapon/venting/shield slots and 99% of the time the cost isn't worth it.

All I'm doing now is building in heavy armor, hardened shields, and integrated targeting on every ship because those are the most expensive and most useful.
Then, I don't even bother with other hull mods because they do next to nothing worthwhile compared to their OP cost.

I would prefer an alternative system where hull mods take up their own slots, and hull mod slots are available on a case-by-case basis but generally with low-tech favoring lots of hull mod slots, and high tech favoring very few.

So for example, a low tech ship may have 6 slots to work with, a midtech may have 4, and a high tech may have 2.
Rather than paying an OP price for each hull mod, you can just put whatever hull mod you want.

This will typically mean that high tech ships are getting integrated targeting and maybe hardened shields, while a low tech ship would have integrated targeting, hardened shields, heavy armor, safety overrides, flux vents, etc...

This means high tech ships tend to be more specialized, low tech more do everything.

I'd take this a step further and get rid of most hull mods that are simply increasing shields, adding damage, adding range, etc. We need more interesting things than stat buffs.

That's my 2 cents on it anyway. Whatever it may be, I just don't think the current system of paying OP for hull mods works and the above is just one idea to try and get away from that.
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Dread Pirate Robots

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Re: Return building in SO with cost of 2 story points.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2021, 06:32:03 PM »

I will say there's one annoying thing about the current state of SO, which is that because the +10% OP skill was removed, even though ships have a lot more OP overall for hull mods, some ships now have a hard time fitting in SO + weapons + vents. So if you look at a SO dominator for example, while it's great that you can build in heavy armor and expanded missile racks, if you try to fit in high OP weapons - like storm needlers, which sucks because SO dominator was pretty much the only use for this gun in the game - then you don't have enough space to put in enough vents to make the SO worth it! I used to like a 2 storm needler 2 assault chaingun SO dominator but now I have to use Mark IXs instead.

This issue (which is not really a big deal) would be solved by making SO able to be built-in for 2 slots (which I like), or making story points give OP (which I kind of don't like because it gives the ships less individual character).

I would prefer an alternative system where hull mods take up their own slots, and hull mod slots are available on a case-by-case basis but generally with low-tech favoring lots of hull mod slots, and high tech favoring very few.

So for example, a low tech ship may have 6 slots to work with, a midtech may have 4, and a high tech may have 2.
Rather than paying an OP price for each hull mod, you can just put whatever hull mod you want.



I think this is a neat idea that partially deals with what I perceive as a growing difference in power between high-tech and low-tech, but it feels like such a big change, it would require completely rebalancing all the hull mods which is a lot to ask.
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