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[Sutopia]

Every player that was here prior to .95 release probably would think the skill is unholy. It’s essentially three times effective HP just by 75% chance of meh-ing hull damage, not to mention other useful perks. It dwarfs field repair easily and is the only skill in industry tree that is actually useful in late game.


So how would you like to “fix” it? I know it costs three points of skill tax to get it but that’s the topic for another day. Assume you can get this skill on the get-go.

A popular proposal is to make it similar to old d-mod related skills, for example, half the d-mod effects and reduce the upkeep cost.
My personal proposal would like to add another perk to the above proposal. I think it can be interesting to cut the deployment point by 10% per d-mod, up to halving the dp. They’re not as effective as a pristine ship after all so giving them a deployment discount should be reasonable. This of course applies to enemy, making pirate and pather fights more intense in late game.

[SCC]

This applies to the enemy... More precisely, to the explorarium drone bounties your contacts can give you.
I think Industry in general has an issue, where it doesn't really help late game, unless you want to spam Paragons from your colonies or something.

[Megas]

Industry does not help in spamming Capitals.  If anything, that would be Space Operations in L5L.

Industry is all over the place, 1 and 3 are pack rat/mule skills, 2 is combat, 4 is pristine or DC, and 5 is colonies.

My gripes with Industry is Field Repairs does not remove d-mods fast enough, and Industry 5 does not seem to give enough.

[Amoebka]

Less crew lost to combat damage, less upkeep costs for d-modded junk, less negative effects from d-mods, d-modded ships count as less DP for skill limit calculations (but not actual deployment!).

I think zombie fleets should be about not caring about ships blowing up and drowning enemies in endless reinforcements. They shouldn't be better DP-per-DP than pristine ships.

Also, less DP for deployment purposes is broken. You are insane if you think 5 d-mods on a capital makes it "as good as a 20 dp ship".

[Sutopia]

Less crew lost to combat damage, less upkeep costs for d-modded junk, less negative effects from d-mods, d-modded ships count as less DP for skill limit calculations (but not actual deployment!).

I think zombie fleets should be about not caring about ships blowing up and drowning enemies in endless reinforcements. They shouldn't be better DP-per-DP than pristine ships.

Also, less DP for deployment purposes is broken. You are insane if you think 5 d-mods on a capital makes it "as good as a 20 dp ship".

Capitals are already suffering from target analysis, I think it’s proper to make their life a bit easier if player so desires. 20DP is still easily bullied by three well equipped frigates because there is another unholy skill called wolf pack tactics.

I really just want to blow up more altlas mk2 simultaneously.

[Amoebka]

If capitals are bad, they should be adressed separately. It would be weird if the primary balance purpose of a zombie fleet skill was to make capitals viable.

DP discounts also bring back all the degenerate spam strategies. Carrier spam is dead, but how about 5 DP Condors? Or would you prefer 8 DP Falcons(P), 162 missiles each?

[Qipchak]

Increase fleet limit to 40 and lower deployment cost for each D-Mod.

[bobucles]

How about "you can change between various d-mod penalties at will" using the magic of duct tape. Why yes, the structural bulkhead is indeed routed through life support, breathing is over rated anyway. 

[Whitey_f242]

I wouldn't.
It's neat as heck and I'd rather see skills be more powerful at large and more like this than remove it.

[Locklave]

How about turning it back into what it used to be when it wasn't a combat d-mod thing? Not sure why so much combat is in the Industry tree now.

[IonDragonX]

How about "you can change between various d-mod penalties at will" using the magic of duct tape. Why yes, the structural bulkhead is indeed routed through life support, breathing is over rated anyway. 

Maybe each D-mod makes the ship just a little bit more suicidal. Cognitive Dissonance and all that.

[Goumindong]

How about turning it back into what it used to be when it wasn't a combat d-mod thing? Not sure why so much combat is in the Industry tree now.

Because, as explained in the other thread, there needs to be big combat value on I4L to compliment the big combat value of I4R

Statements that changes to DP are bad I think are incorrect for similar reasons. In .95 the skill that made ships with D-Mods have lower maintenance meant you could more easily bring more ships to a combat because you could stack more and larger combat ships. This would increase your DP budget and decrease the opponents DP budget for flying the same maintenance fleet. And since maintenance is more or less your combat power (because you have to make a fight profitable and get back to the core with your fleet intact) this meant a large increase in real combat power.

I4L needs something similar. I am fine with it’s current implementation. But reducing the DP of ships with d-mods (by 5% or 10% depending on net balance) would also be a fine implementation.

[Histidine]

The one thing I absolutely want killed from DC is the RNG-based 90% hull damage reduction. An always-on 50% reduction (at five D-mods) would be more than acceptable compared to this.

i.e. this should never happen

[Locklave]

How about turning it back into what it used to be when it wasn't a combat d-mod thing? Not sure why so much combat is in the Industry tree now.

Because, as explained in the other thread, there needs to be big combat value on I4L to compliment the big combat value of I4R

I4L has zero combat value, it has after and out of combat value. Only Derelict Contingent has combat value on that tier. I have no clue why you think they both do.

Faster repairs and some free repairs isn't combat to be clear.

Please explain if this isn't what you are talking about.

[Amoebka]

I4L has zero combat value, it has after and out of combat value.

Well, depends on what you mean by combat value. Retreating and immediately re-engaging for free repairs is a strat you can do, and it does make certain fights easier. Agree with the overall sentiment, though.