Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: Automated Ships skill sucks  (Read 15549 times)

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12157
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2021, 03:43:04 AM »

It should enable the player to take a Radiant battleship with an Alpha core with no malus.  Simply upping the points to 40 would solve this.
You need 50 since alpha core adds 10 to the 40 DP Radiant for the DP pool.  That assumes Radiant stays at 40 DP.  There are calls for Radiant to be nerfed in some way, whether it is making it weaker (boo!) or cost more DP (okay).

Ships smaller than Radiant are not overpowered as much.

I am fine with overpowered Radiant as long as its competition is current Special Modifications.  I am so envious of 3 s-mods and higher flux stat maximums, even when I have Radiant in my fleet.
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4142
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2021, 04:25:35 AM »

I would prefer Radiant to be at 60 DP and Automated Ships skill to be at 60 or 70 DP limit, to open more options than a single Radiant or frigate spam. Though, this change would let you spam even more Remnant frigates...

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2021, 04:30:03 AM »

I would prefer Radiant to be at 60 DP and Automated Ships skill to be at 60 or 70 DP limit, to open more options than a single Radiant or frigate spam. Though, this change would let you spam even more Remnant frigates...
The fleet limit is restricting enough that I don't think that'll be too much of an issue, and with ECM nerfed and combat deployment set to 40% minimum I don't see how having so many officers would provide a completely broken advantage either.
Logged

Amoebka

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2021, 05:05:43 AM »

I would prefer 60 dp didn't become the new norm for capitals unless the game is explicitly set to 400 dp.

The reason remnant destroyers/cruisers are unappealing is the high cost of AI officers. Cores cost the same as the ships they are in. This encourages either using the minimal amount of officers (radiant) or the smallest possible ships (lumen spam). Cores need to count less towards the skill limit (and their impact on officer calculations needs to be reduced).
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12157
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2021, 05:16:15 AM »

I would prefer 60 dp didn't become the new norm for capitals unless the game is explicitly set to 400 dp.
Yes.  Default of 300 is already too small, especially if player wants to use the 75 DP Ziggurat regularly.  (Ziggurat screams cool flagship meant for the protagonist.)  Even 400 barely feels big enough.  If 60 DP became the new norm, then bringing back 500 map size would be great.

Part of the point of Automated Ships is to use those SNK boss ships in your fleet (instead of being an SNK boss ship yourself with Spec.Mods.), not yet more balanced ships.  Remnants other than Radiant feel too balanced, except maybe the frigates' abnormally high PPT (which would be great for winning by running out the enemy's PPT/CR clock first).

The reason remnant destroyers/cruisers are unappealing is the high cost of AI officers. Cores cost the same as the ships they are in. This encourages either using the minimal amount of officers (radiant) or the smallest possible ships (lumen spam). Cores need to count less towards the skill limit (and their impact on officer calculations needs to be reduced).
Using cores in your ships instead of in your colonies or turning them in is a cost.  I would not be opposed to cores being free, or at least Gamma cores being free.
Logged

prav

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2021, 07:26:21 AM »

Has anyone gotten good use out of any of the mid-sized remnants? They seem like poor options compared to Radiants or frigate gamma spam.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 09:04:05 AM »

Scintillas are the best destroyer carrier (by a lot) if the wiki stats on them are up to date. Fulgents are similarly better than any normal combat destroyer, though they have downsides. I don't know if these are better enough to overcome Radiants (Radiants are crazy good), but they are significant upgrades over regular ships.

Scintillas: 12DP: 75 OP, 60 speed, .6 shield, 2 deck carrier with more than double the missile load of condors or drovers (medium + 6 smalls, more than a Mora), that also has recall device to speed up bombing runs. Even with 2 decks recall device is top tier.

Fulgents: 11DP: 100 OP medium destroyers, 450 armor, 5000 hull, .6 shield, slightly slow at 85 speed. 2 medium and 4 small missiles is heavy cruiser levels of missiles and it has High Energy Focus to boost the remaining gun DPS (probably a heavy blaster). The main downside is short range + slightly low speed: it can be kited by ballistic frigates and destroyers, so needs to be kept in a battle line where its missile can kill ships that get close.

The Scintillas in particular because they are backline ships don't require officers to be competitive, though a gamma core with strike commander, missile spec, target analysis, and free (either speed or defense probably) would give them a boost. Fulgents probably want gamma cores for missile spec at the very least, but probably also target analysis (optional, but good), EWM, and shields.

Brilliants I'm less fond of: they have the mounts and stats to do anything, but their ship system is very poor and they are missing 25 OP compared to their mounts and the amount given to other heavy cruisers. I'd say they are worse than either Champions or Dominators (in player fleet).
Logged

bobucles

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 09:05:36 AM »

I was hoping the skill would give 1 full battleship + chump change, or 2 crippled battleships.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7214
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2021, 09:11:54 AM »

It can give 2 battleships without malfunctions, but requires stacking every other CR booster which is not great. More a powerful edge case.
Logged

Harmful Mechanic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
  • On break.
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2021, 09:12:15 AM »

I do think the suggestion to up Radiant DP to 60 and the skill's cap to 60 was basically sound. It makes a swarm of Remnants workable but with limitations, which I feel is the best value for effort here; that way you can get a super-battleship, or a super-battleship's worth of other stuff, vs. the best pick clearly being a Radiant, or two Radiants, with everything else being a novelty, right now.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 09:18:24 AM by Harmful Mechanic »
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4142
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2021, 09:16:03 AM »

The Scintillas in particular because they are backline ships don't require officers to be competitive, though a gamma core with strike commander, missile spec, target analysis, and free (either speed or defense probably) would give them a boost.
And "reckless+" personality.

Harmful Mechanic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
  • On break.
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2021, 09:19:03 AM »

There's no need for a 'reckless+' personality; the "do_not_back_off" hidden hullmod takes care of things nicely.
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2021, 09:23:24 AM »

My idea for improving the skill: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=21139.0

I think the DP limit is misleading in that it implies that the benefit of the skill is giving more DP worth of ships, rather than the real benefit of having more officers.
Logged

Amoebka

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2021, 09:37:28 AM »

Scintillas are a lot worse than you make them sound. They are limited to drone fighters, of which the only bomber is the minelayer which doesn't even want to get teleported.
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4142
    • View Profile
Re: Automated Ships skill sucks
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2021, 09:51:40 AM »

I didn't even know that. That makes them probably the worst carrier in the game. Sparks are the best drone fighters, but they don't really gain much from recall device. Neither do Wasps, Luxes or Flashes.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4