Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

Author Topic: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod  (Read 1043 times)

Sarissofoi

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« on: April 17, 2021, 02:10:22 AM »

Like in the title.
Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod. Pretty please.
The best weapon in the game isn't OP enough and need some buffs.
Its serious problem.
Really serious.
It need to be done.

Ad Astra

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Are Reapers strawberry flavored?
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 12:50:25 PM »

On one hand, if Thumper was deleted from the game I wouldn't notice, on the other hand, extended magazines applies more to energy weapons than to ballistic ones (what in the hell).
I wonder if having actual magazines for some ballistic weapons would work well and be interesting.
Logged
You can park your spaceship anywhere you want if you get along with pirates

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 10922
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 01:05:05 PM »

I wonder if having actual magazines for some ballistic weapons would work well and be interesting.
All ballistics had limited ammo before the 0.65a releases.  Player could shield tank them until the enemy ran out of ammo, then shoot back.
Logged

Ad Astra

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Are Reapers strawberry flavored?
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »

All ballistics had limited ammo before the 0.65a releases.  Player could shield tank them until the enemy ran out of ammo, then shoot back.

I had read about that but not about why the mod stayed even after that, maybe Alex is deliberating on bringing ammo back for some weapons like needlers or something? Haven't been able to find anything about that.
Not as limited ammo, but as magazines that need reloading or something of that sort, like an autopulse that instead of slowly recharging, it just spends all rounds, reloads and starts shooting again.
Logged
You can park your spaceship anywhere you want if you get along with pirates

Chthonic One

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 01:29:26 PM »

I wonder if having actual magazines for some ballistic weapons would work well and be interesting.
All ballistics had limited ammo before the 0.65a releases.  Player could shield tank them until the enemy ran out of ammo, then shoot back.
I was wondering what that mod was even for. Now I know it isn't for anything anymore.
Logged

KDR_11k

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 04:41:34 AM »

I wonder if having actual magazines for some ballistic weapons would work well and be interesting.
All ballistics had limited ammo before the 0.65a releases.  Player could shield tank them until the enemy ran out of ammo, then shoot back.
I was wondering what that mod was even for. Now I know it isn't for anything anymore.
It's only for energy weapons with charges now, the name should probably be changed to "extra weapon capacitors" but that would require new art too and honestly that time can be better spent elsewhere. The OP cost has already been lowered to match this more niche role.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 10922
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 05:33:06 AM »

Not as limited ammo, but as magazines that need reloading or something of that sort, like an autopulse that instead of slowly recharging, it just spends all rounds, reloads and starts shooting again.
We had that too in one of the 0.65 releases.  In practice, that turned all ballistics into autopulse lasers that effectively did (more-or-less) half DPS in most fights.  Basically gimped ballistics and made some energy weapons good for universals (reliable DPS despite terrible range).

Also, it was a mess for stats.
Logged

Ad Astra

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Are Reapers strawberry flavored?
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 07:38:34 AM »

We had that too in one of the 0.65 releases.  In practice, that turned all ballistics into autopulse lasers that effectively did (more-or-less) half DPS in most fights.  Basically gimped ballistics and made some energy weapons good for universals (reliable DPS despite terrible range).

Also, it was a mess for stats.

Can't say I don't imagine it ruining most ballistic weapons lol, would only expect it to work on things like needlers and devastator cannons (since the long cooldown is already there you'd just be getting a bit more control on the burst and getting that mod to be somewhat more useful, not really worth the hassle probably).
With stats you mean because of the hard to predict sustained DPS or did it mess up something else?
Logged
You can park your spaceship anywhere you want if you get along with pirates

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3202
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 07:46:59 AM »

Basically the issue with regenerating magazines for ballistics is that it was applied in a rather ad-hoc fashion, with no particular attention to refinement or which weapons should have larger/smaller clips or higher/lower sustained DPS. And then rather than attempt refinement, the notion was just dropped. A pity, really.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

IonDragonX

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 787
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 10:36:03 AM »

Basically the issue with regenerating magazines for ballistics is that it was applied in a rather ad-hoc fashion, with no particular attention to refinement or which weapons should have larger/smaller clips or higher/lower sustained DPS. And then rather than attempt refinement, the notion was just dropped. A pity, really.
This is still a cool idea. You can see remnants of it in SWP's Victory-class.
Logged

KDR_11k

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2021, 11:48:26 AM »

OTOH didn't limited ammo ballistics have barely any flux cost (outside of mass driver weapons)?
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2671
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2021, 11:59:45 AM »

Basically the issue with regenerating magazines for ballistics is that it was applied in a rather ad-hoc fashion, with no particular attention to refinement or which weapons should have larger/smaller clips or higher/lower sustained DPS. And then rather than attempt refinement, the notion was just dropped. A pity, really.

Fire control gets much harder with all weapons being clip limited. Player can't do it (without having to constantly pause) due extreme micromanagement involved, and SS AI is not that smart.

Firing HE weapon into shield is ok when it only reduced your flux efficiency, but doing so with limited clip risks leaving you of ammo by the time enemy shield drops. But you can't fire only kinetics either - enemy will armor-tank. So you need to fire kinetics at full rate, and HE at sufficient rate to discourage armor-tanking. When enemy is at high flux, swap the 2. Etc...
Logged

Harmful Mechanic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1365
  • The slow blade penetrates the shield
    • View Profile
Re: Make Thumpers work with Extended Magazines mod
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2021, 01:28:52 PM »

There are a few weapons in vanilla that could stand to have front-loaded damage, and the Thumper is as good a candidate as any for a little TLC with the clip-reloading mechanic.
Logged