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[SafariJohn]

I like this suggestion - by removing the no-brainer hullmods from the SP pool, optimal builds should become much less clear-cut.

[Ad Astra]

Its only natural that the most expensive mod you want is getting built in, the balance comes from the fact that when you lock in a mod, that ship is now restricted to whatever build that mod supports.
Locking in SO incapacitates it for range, locking in hardened shields incapacitates it from shield shunt etc.
If anything we should be thinking of more mods that add gameplay variety and require unique approaches to a ship that has them, as of now these mods can be counted with the fingers of a hand that is missing a few of them.

Something that could be done is locking building in certain mods behind high level skills (ex: locking in SO is allowed by a tier 5 combat skill), however this would make those skills permanent, creating further issues.

I'd like it if we could play with the flux efficiency of systems.
Safety Overrides is popular for this exact reason, it changes several mechanics and funnels you into a certain combat approach.
ITU doesn't make weapons less flux efficient, if it did then it wouldn't be such a generalist mod, instead it would be a sniper/support only mod (mostly)
If hardened shields made your thrusters weaker (slower ship) then you wouldn't go around slapping it into every single ship
Mods should make ships more powerful in a certain role, Caps and Vents already fit the "better in everything" category.
Built in converted hangars could butcher your cargo capacity, even the normal one could, things should be doubled edged blades, combat is an art of situational awareness and circumstantial power fluctuations.

[ChaseBears]

I think the most straightforward and fair solution to the 'always build in expensive mods' problem is to make S-modding only worth a fixed 'average mod value' of OP, i.e. if you s-mod expanded missile racks into a frigate it still costs 3 OP since the s-mod value for frigates would presumably be 5.  Picking and choosing which mods qualify for S-modding will be confusing and possibly frustrating for players.

The XP bonus from cheaper s-mods is imo too far outside the players day to day experience to really care about in their decision making.  There's always more xp where that came from at any rate.

This wouldn't necessarily fix people slapping heavy armor on all their ships, but that's more of a mod balance concern instead.

[AcaMetis]

Considering you get more bonus XP for cheaper s-mods, putting some on smaller ships shouldn't make a perceptible dent in your late-game SP count, no?

The math could very well say it shouldn't, I've never checked, but it always feels like it does. I think the issue is that in practice lots of bonus xp just means a larger bank which gets paid out at the same consistent rate. It doesn't matter whether I've banked enough for one SP or ten, I get them at the same consistent rate. Well, assuming I can keep the bank filled, which expensive s-mods don't do, but I find enough uses to keep the bonus xp going.

Of course my current playthrough is running on a steady diet of Tempests and Omens, along with many an Atlas with build in Efficiency Overhaul of all things (weird playthrough, I know), so that experience might be a tad bit biased at the moment. The last playthrough I did was before the XP/SP curve rework, so that definitely was starved regardless.

Mods should make ships more powerful in a certain role, Caps and Vents already fit the "better in everything" category.

Can't say I'm a fan of accomplishing that through making hullmods make my ship worse, though. Besides, than you'd have even more clear-cut "optimal loadouts" with no chance for creativity in-between. Never put Hardened Shields on a ship that's not a Paragon, never put ITU on a ship that doesn't have vents to spare and can mount effective long-range weapons, etc.

[Megas]

Unless I get +100% bonus xp from integrating s-mods, I do not care how much bonus xp I get.  All that matters is how much OP is saved by integrating the most expensive hullmods I know I will use on the ship (like Expanded Missile Racks or Hardened Shields).  If I do not have those hullmods, then I do not integrate hullmods until I get them, because I plan to use those ships forever.  If I do not plan to keep a ship forever, I do not bother with s-mods on it - waste of story points.

[Megas]

Instead of s-mods, let story points increase max OP for that ship.  Say, 5/10/15/25 per story point, up to the limit.  As another benefit, player can boost the ship anytime instead of waiting until good hullmods are found late.

Same difference, though, everyone would just use the extra OP to fit on ADF/ITU/HS. As for your latter point, I don't see myself s-modding early ships regardless. You're not wrong that s-modding early ships is hard when the good stuff isn't available yet, but it just seems so wasteful when SP dries up lategame and you've got s-modded ships collecting dust in a colony hanger...

Those hullmods will be on regardless of story points.  For example, Expanded Missile Racks will go on a ship that relies on missiles, and the less important stuff are luxuries that get cut out.  All that means is that more max OP is the same, instead of varying by how expensive the integrated mod is.

And ships are generally OP starved without s-mods.  I would not say no to more OP for seriously OP starved ships like the Shrike, or even for ships that are unusually generous with OP.

I suggested more max OP because it is simple and does not need to look for new downsides for perfectly fine hullmods because the new s-mod system favors them too much.

[Ad Astra]

I suggested more max OP because it is simple and does not need to look for new downsides for perfectly fine hullmods because the new s-mod system favors them too much.

I agree with this, making story points a general ship improvement already involves commitment to the ship itself throughout the playthrough. Restrictions make the ship a bigger potential loss if you change strategies down the line and your built in mods don't work with it, and considering we can respec skills, it feels like a contradiction of sorts.

The initial poster is practically saying "People use these hard to earn resources in the most cost-efficient way possible" like its a bad or undesirable thing.

Rare and powerful resources will get min-maxed even more than other things, trying to stop it can only result in making the rare resources useless. Granted you can have a whole bunch of story points if you are a hoarder (don't look at me) but they are still to be used judiciously and that feels good.

[Sutopia]

Unpopular suggestion: increase DP cost for S modded ships depending on S modded OP cost.

[Chthonic One]

I would like to point out that I wouldn't build in a 15 point S-mod that had no purpose in my end build even if there were no 10+ S+mods I was intending to build in just to get a "free" mod.

Honestly, I don't see the OP's point in this thread. I'm not always building in the same S-mods on all my ships.

[RustyCabbage]

I suggested more max OP because it is simple and does not need to look for new downsides for perfectly fine hullmods because the new s-mod system favors them too much.

The initial poster is practically saying "People use these hard to earn resources in the most cost-efficient way possible" like its a bad or undesirable thing.

Rare and powerful resources will get min-maxed even more than other things, trying to stop it can only result in making the rare resources useless. Granted you can have a whole bunch of story points if you are a hoarder (don't look at me) but they are still to be used judiciously and that feels good.

That's rather reductive. I'd always favor using resources in a cost-efficient way. I kinda wrote a guide to help people do that better. I just want the choice to not be bland.

[ChaseBears]

I suggested more max OP because it is simple and does not need to look for new downsides for perfectly fine hullmods because the new s-mod system favors them too much.

I agree with this, making story points a general ship improvement already involves commitment to the ship itself throughout the playthrough. Restrictions make the ship a bigger potential loss if you change strategies down the line and your built in mods don't work with it, and considering we can respec skills, it feels like a contradiction of sorts.

The initial poster is practically saying "People use these hard to earn resources in the most cost-efficient way possible" like its a bad or undesirable thing.

Rare and powerful resources will get min-maxed even more than other things, trying to stop it can only result in making the rare resources useless. Granted you can have a whole bunch of story points if you are a hoarder (don't look at me) but they are still to be used judiciously and that feels good.

There's multiple ways to design the system so that it doesn't cater to using it on the most expensive mod on your list, and story points will never be anything close to useless when they always represent Free Stuff.

[Ad Astra]

That's rather reductive. I'd always favor using resources in a cost-efficient way. I kinda wrote a guide to help people do that better. I just want the choice to not be bland.

Yeah, the idea was to put it in that ridiculously simplified way so it showed it was a clear exaggeration but it probably didn't come that way.
Apologies! Truly no hostility intended.

I understand wanting it to be more interesting, those mods could be in a button that said "if they fit, shove them in" but limited slots, limited ordinance points, and limited capacitors and vents, inevitably funnel the choice of "getting a freebie" towards trying to get discounts to the big price tags I think. Turning story points into an ordinance point blank check however...that could have interesting results. It would work kind of like the XIV built in mods, more boring in its direct effect I guess but more interesting in build variety which was what you were after right?

Again sorry if I came out mean, its hard to get the playful tone through in writing, when in doubt never take what I say as a serious observation but I'll try to make it more obvious.

[RustyCabbage]

Yeah, the idea was to put it in that ridiculously simplified way so it showed it was a clear exaggeration but it probably didn't come that way.
Apologies! Truly no hostility intended.

I understand wanting it to be more interesting, those mods could be in a button that said "if they fit, shove them in" but limited slots, limited ordinance points, and limited capacitors and vents, inevitably funnel the choice of "getting a freebie" towards trying to get discounts to the big price tags I think. Turning story points into an ordinance point blank check however...that could have interesting results. It would work kind of like the XIV built in mods, more boring in its direct effect I guess but more interesting in build variety which was what you were after right?

Again sorry if I came out mean, its hard to get the playful tone through in writing, when in doubt never take what I say as a serious observation but I'll try to make it more obvious.

No worries. Sorry if I was coming across as snippy, too. It's been a long day for me for really silly reasons.

And yeah, variety is the main goal here--the exact mechanism is less important to me. Right now it feels like, even beyond s-mod SO, for every shielded ship I can just s-mod Hardened Shields and put the freed OP into caps and have a more or less optimal (for AI control) ship. (The being locked out of Shield Shunts thing you mentioned is a point, but it's hard to make that hullmod useful without Derelict Contingent at the moment and I find that a bit too cheesy for my tastes.)

[Ad Astra]

No problem my good vegetable! Yeah derelict contingent is a meme, I'm bashing it right now in another thread, beat up ships should be really cheap to maintain, not unkillable zombies that defy all reason.

[Hiruma Kai]

Those hullmods will be on regardless of story points.  For example, Expanded Missile Racks will go on a ship that relies on missiles, and the less important stuff are luxuries that get cut out.  All that means is that more max OP is the same, instead of varying by how expensive the integrated mod is.

I feel like this is the correct point. 

In my view, s-mod diversity doesn't matter so much as the final ship build diversity does.  That actually leads to different experiences in game.  As far as I can tell, s-mod diversity just means less free OP to spend than we have in RC12.  Any version of the mechanic, played "optimally", is going to end like this I think.  What is the maximum amount of stuff that I actually want that I can cram into the ship.

Now, it may be we want to reduce the amount of free OP for ships (looking at you safety overrides), but that's a question of overall power as opposed to diversity (which is what I interpret "interesting usage" as).

As it is, I'm already using s-mods for hull mods you didn't list.  But maybe I'm just strange.  I've s-moded Efficiency Overhaul and Surveying Equipment on a set of 3 Revenants, and then slapped on Auxilliary tanks and Expanded Cargo holds as well.  In another run, I've got 6 Revenants with s-moded Surveying equipment. Simply because those the hull mods one typically puts on logistics ships.  So assuming you're investing s-mods into logistic ships, then I see reason to use a different list of hull mods.

As for combat ship hull mods, I'm willing to bet the 90% most common hull mods come from a list of 14 or less - and thus we've already got ~50% hull mod diversity (your list of 6 + hardened subsystems).  You'd simply be pushing it to the other 7 or so other common combat hull mods.  I feel like the screen shot listing hull mods is very misleading in terms of "viable" hull mods.  I don't care if I can make it free, I'm not going to throw Additional Berthing or Surveying Equipment on a combat ship.  A number are straight up not possible (Militarized Subsystem, Makeshift shield generator, Escort Package, Assault Package, Converted Fighter bay) on typical combat ships either.

As an example, if I want my Paragon to have Hardened Shields, Stabilized Shields, Heavy Armor, Auxiliary Thrusters, Integrated Point Defense, and you tell me Hardened Shields and Heavy Armor are no go, I'll just apply it to two of the others.  Build is still the same, I'm just short 25 OP when comparing builds.  Guess I have 25 less capacitors on that particular Paragon.  Ship flies basically the same either way.

If you really cut down on the value of the OP saved per story point, I think the it is possible that less common hull mods are less likely to show up on ships at all, not more, since overall OP will be tighter, and so you ensure you have the critical needs first.