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Author Topic: Supercarrier  (Read 33742 times)

armoredcookie

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2012, 05:03:24 PM »

It can already be assumed that re-stocking and re-arming larger ships, not just frigates, will be an addition to the game soon with the hulking munitions ships seen in one of the art blog posts(seems like they'll have VERY low health). I would guess that frigates would go there to re-arm rather than to a supercarrier. Thus this supercarrier would be relegated to the role of repairing frigates.
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hadesian

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2012, 02:25:11 AM »

OK so what about a hull modification that could add a limited flight deck to a cap ship that is without one.  Does that leave things sideways??

This just seems unrealistic to me. You don't just bolt on a flight deck to an existing ship without massive sacrifices (ie, see early naval aircraft carriers) and modifications to the hull. And if this is implemented, the "bolt-on flight decks" will need to be gimped in some way, ie can only restock and repair and not replace.

Well what about the huge hole in the middle of the paragon? Surely that could be used as a flight deck with some work.
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Vandala

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2012, 08:51:34 AM »

Well what about the huge hole in the middle of the paragon? Surely that could be used as a flight deck with some work.
If you want it's speed to go from 30 to 0 then sure.

Temjin

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2012, 11:17:04 AM »

I'm still of the opinion that anyone spending the costs (in staying power, firepower, FP, crew, and speed) involved with fielding an Astral wouldn't be tremendously overpowered if it could refit frigates.
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Deathven

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2012, 07:36:47 AM »

Regardless of what ever balancing that might come with this, it would definitely make an astral worth more than just hangar space.
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Vandala

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2012, 08:19:38 AM »

I'm still of the opinion that anyone spending the costs (in staying power, firepower, FP, crew, and speed) involved with fielding an Astral wouldn't be tremendously overpowered if it could refit frigates.
Do you really wanna see a frigate fleet of 20+ tempest with a astral to refit them? Because that would make for one immortal fleet.

neonesis

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2012, 08:41:44 AM »

I'm still of the opinion that anyone spending the costs (in staying power, firepower, FP, crew, and speed) involved with fielding an Astral wouldn't be tremendously overpowered if it could refit frigates.
Do you really wanna see a frigate fleet of 20+ tempest with a astral to refit them? Because that would make for one immortal fleet.
That would take hellofalot of FPs, but still you can easily balance this by extending refit time. Since frigates are much bigger than fighters, it should take around 40 seconds to refit at least. Whatever the number you insert there, it's a viable solution.

BTW, bear in mind that 20+ tempests is a quite unstoppable force anyway,  unless you counter it with ton of broadswords.

EDIT: Some other solutions that came to my mind:
- carrier must be stationary during refit
- carrier must turn its shield off during refit
- refitting uses flux, amount depending on weapons refitted and armor repaired.

I think yes, frigate refitting is very overpowered if implemented in the same manner as it is with fighters. But throw some simple restrictions, voila.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 08:46:02 AM by neonesis »
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Vandala

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2012, 08:58:48 AM »

That would take hellofalot of FPs, but still you can easily balance this by extending refit time. Since frigates are much bigger than fighters, it should take around 40 seconds to refit at least. Whatever the number you insert there, it's a viable solution.

BTW, bear in mind that 20+ tempests is a quite unstoppable force anyway,  unless you counter it with ton of broadswords.

EDIT: Some other solutions that came to my mind:
- carrier must be stationary during refit
- carrier must turn its shield off during refit
- refitting uses flux, amount depending on weapons refitted and armor repaired.

I think yes, frigate refitting is very overpowered if implemented in the same manner as it is with fighters. But throw some simple restrictions, voila.
Tempest is only 6 fleet point, fastest frigate there is, if you take the speed upgrade even fighters won't be able to keep up with it and it has two medium energy turrets and a small missile slot. And that's just the tempest, what would happen if you could resupply the hyperion and their antimatter blasters?

It doesn't matter what restrictions you put on it, it's way overpowered.

neonesis

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2012, 10:24:42 AM »

That would take hellofalot of FPs, but still you can easily balance this by extending refit time. Since frigates are much bigger than fighters, it should take around 40 seconds to refit at least. Whatever the number you insert there, it's a viable solution.

BTW, bear in mind that 20+ tempests is a quite unstoppable force anyway,  unless you counter it with ton of broadswords.

EDIT: Some other solutions that came to my mind:
- carrier must be stationary during refit
- carrier must turn its shield off during refit
- refitting uses flux, amount depending on weapons refitted and armor repaired.

I think yes, frigate refitting is very overpowered if implemented in the same manner as it is with fighters. But throw some simple restrictions, voila.
Tempest is only 6 fleet point, fastest frigate there is, if you take the speed upgrade even fighters won't be able to keep up with it and it has two medium energy turrets and a small missile slot. And that's just the tempest, what would happen if you could resupply the hyperion and their antimatter blasters?

It doesn't matter what restrictions you put on it, it's way overpowered.

I see what you are trying to prove, but you are taking the best frigates in the entire game. And I have said already, twenty Tempests, is alot, I mean ALOT, of extremely fast, shielded firepower.

Let's consider some cases:
If we put twenty Tempests with supercarrier, against twenty Broadsword wings with a Gemini, who will win? Aside from AI tactics problems, and upgrades (heck, these things can easily make almost anything unbalanced versus specific case), and if one fighter wing attacks one Tempest, I dare say that at some point a few Tempests will have to go back. Now, with let's say 40 second refit time, and let's say 5 Tempests going for refit, there's theoretical 200 seconds gap, when Broadswords have simple advantage of numbers. If we account for refitting the fighters (let's say also 5 fighter wings will have to be repaired), the gap will still be there, because fighters are repaired much faster!

Now, I do understand that while Broadswords would win, such supercarrier would make frigates immensely more powerful, and useful. But then, you can restrict it even more - 1 refit/repair every one minute. No repairs when hull and/or armor level lower than 50%. And so on and so forth.

EDIT:
After a quick thought, it came to my mind that the entire idea of "regenerating fighters while in battle" sucks. Why? Because it punishes anything that is just above fighters (e.g. frigates, and to some small degree destroyers) but cannot "regenerate". Why would you use destroyer or frigate, if you can just throw fighter wing and be safe because they are faster, they will never run out of ammo, nor will they ever be destroyed completely. Unless you attack an Onslaught with just one wing that is.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:40:47 AM by neonesis »
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Temjin

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2012, 12:57:56 PM »

You know what? For the credits cost and hassle associated in acquiring a 20-Tempest fleet plus an Astral, I'm okay with it being really dangerous. You realize that that's 400,000 credits in frigates alone, not counting weapons or the Astral itself. 400,000 credits worth of Broadswords would destroy 400,000 credits of Tempests, since they'd outnumber them nearly three wings to one in terms of sheer reserves.


And the Astral isn't exactly a "ship of the line." It's slow, relatively fragile, and poorly armed. Adding the ability to make frigates more effective would make it both more viable and more fun.
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neonesis

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2012, 01:32:28 PM »

You know what? For the credits cost and hassle associated in acquiring a 20-Tempest fleet plus an Astral, I'm okay with it being really dangerous. You realize that that's 400,000 credits in frigates alone, not counting weapons or the Astral itself. 400,000 credits worth of Broadswords would destroy 400,000 credits of Tempests, since they'd outnumber them nearly three wings to one in terms of sheer reserves.


And the Astral isn't exactly a "ship of the line." It's slow, relatively fragile, and poorly armed. Adding the ability to make frigates more effective would make it both more viable and more fun.
This.

However, current state of the game makes it easy to acquire tons and tons of money, and that is why we can buy any ships we want. It's useful, for the purpose of testing, but in the end, acquiring Tempest, or hey, a mighty Hyperion, will be much more difficult.

Alex once said, a capital ship class, like Onslaught will be one for entire sector as a defense. Imagine acquiring an Astral in such situation. Endgame? That's what I think.
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Thaago

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2012, 02:36:37 PM »

Something else to think about is that, while the Tempest is good, it will take losses going up against properly armed battleships at similar FP's. 4 Tempests are not going to be able to take down a Paragon, even if they can refit. And if they can, its due to the AI having a dumb moment.
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Temjin

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2012, 03:07:31 PM »

Something else to think about is that, while the Tempest is good, it will take losses going up against properly armed battleships at similar FP's. 4 Tempests are not going to be able to take down a Paragon, even if they can refit. And if they can, its due to the AI having a dumb moment.

Exactly. Most capital ships will outrange it and hit harder. And, being able to rearm, say, a Wolf or a Hyperion with torpedoes isn't all that much more dangerous at that sort of FP level than a wing of Daggers bearing down on you.
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Vandala

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2012, 07:24:37 PM »

Now, I do understand that while Broadswords would win, such supercarrier would make frigates immensely more powerful, and useful. But then, you can restrict it even more - 1 refit/repair every one minute. No repairs when hull and/or armor level lower than 50%. And so on and so forth.

LOL, sure broadswords would win, it's slower and has no shield, it's guns are out ranged and it's missiles can be outrun. Those things will drop like flies. The only advantage they posses is that they don't collide with one another.

Vandala

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Re: Supercarrier
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2012, 10:03:57 PM »

Let's see how well broadswords fare against tempests shall we?

Here's a simple mod, adds two missions. Let me know how this goes.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jsi21k
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