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[Iscariot]

Because it isn't a little staying power. It's a ridiculous, gamebreaking amount of firepower. If you want to give up some mobility but not all mobility, then field destroyers. That's what they're there for. There ought not be a class of ship that can so comprehensively dominate.

[Temjin]

Because it isn't a little staying power. It's a ridiculous, gamebreaking amount of firepower. If you want to give up some mobility but not all mobility, then field destroyers. That's what they're there for. There ought not be a class of ship that can so comprehensively dominate.

And I guess this is where we comprehensively disagree. Outside of some specialized builds or a lot of skill and patience, I hardly think rearming frigates is unbalanced.

And if it is, why not just let them repair the frigates and refill projectiles, not missiles?

[Iscariot]

That's an extremely arbitrary distinction to make.

[Temjin]

That's an extremely arbitrary distinction to make.

Not really. You seemed to think that Reaper and Atropos torpedoes were the major concern, so that's a way around it.

I don't really think they are, necessarily, but it was a possible way around your primary complaint. It would be interesting if it were possible to mod it in and see if it was actually a problem.

My main point is that piloting strike frigates against big ships is a blast, and this is a way to make that more viable late-game. I have no problem with making a fun strategy more viable, and I don't think it would overshadow the fun or power associated with taking a broadside behemoth into combat.

Plus, it would make the Astral actually really useful and fun to have around.

[Iscariot]

Arbitrary in the sense that an Astral can rearm Atropos and Reaper torpedoes on Tridents and Daggers, but not frigates hypothetically?

It's not even just torpedoes. It's bombs and harpoons too-- maybe you don't have a problem swatting away frigates in a capital ship, but what about lighter varieties of cruiser, or destroyers? Do you want to invalidate them too?

Flying a frigate is a very viable strategy, if the dozens of players running around in Tempests are any evidence. I don't see why you can't accept that maybe it's not good at every phase of combat, or every kind of combat. I fly a capital ship, and I spend most of the early phase flipping between combat and tactical views to manage the battle and not doing much else. Sometimes I don't even deploy with the first wave. Should capital ships get their speed raised to 150? I don't think so.

If all you want to do is make the Astral more viable, why not suggest an additional flight deck? Maybe an electromagnetic catapult to fling strike fighters on target faster? I honestly have never found it to be overly useless myself, so I don't really understand, but making a supercarrier cheapens at least two classes of ship and opens the door to a ridiculous outlet of firepower.

[hadesian]

Why not make the Astral a genuinely really useful ship by granting it (along with the supposed new ship only hardpoint weapons like the Omen's apparent scalar) repair drones that come out of the third flight deck that can slowly repair any ship. In any case you're fielding an Astral or something similar in fleet points I've only ever found Tempests and Hyperions die like *click* that.

They get wedged between battleships and die in the crossfire very quickly or get torn apart by the faster and more agile Thunders. Right now the Astral is in my fleet, and it's one redeeming factor for me is that suddenly all four Thunder wings r&r at the same time so it cuts 3/4 of the time as we don't have to wait for a flight deck to open. So it's cheaper to field one Astral than a Venture, Gemini and Odyssey regardless of defence capabilities (or INcapabilities).

So back to these repair drones. Slow repair of any ship class, and doesn't heal a ship 'properly' just the area where the drones latch on. Drones can be killed quick and if a wing dies you don't get another until after the battle.

Or, we can accept the uselessness of the Astral, opt for the Odyssey and have the automated repair unit really slowly repair.

Just my thoughts

[Hyph_K31]

Actually i think this is planned already (apart from the astral bit, i don't really know), because you can find repair drone sprites in the vanilla starfarer ships folder.

So i not really sure what all the fuss is about, if there is a chance that alex has already planned a feature almost exactly like it.

heck, there are even construction rig sprites.

[armoredcookie]

Well the thing about re-arming torpedoes and weapons is that it'll come up soon with the new munitions ships.
Frigates would simply go to a munitions ship, not a ship like the Astral, for re-arming.

So maybe large deck carriers should service the health(and maybe armor) of frigates. I mean, they can slap new armor plates and other fighters in place of old ones, why can't they just make a few tweaks to a frigate and maybe restore a frigate back to 70-90% hull health, and maybe 1/3 armor.

[Iscariot]

Restoring armor I can see. Armor comes in plates and you can kind of just slap it on. Hull involves actively rerouting broken power conduits, mending ruptured gas lines, generally fixing the ship. I would be ok with extremely slow armor repairs, and I would be ok with munitions ships carting around spare missiles and stuff too, but a full rearm/resupply carrier type thing for frigates is unthinkable.

[armoredcookie]

Agreed, practically makes frigates large controllable fighters.

[BillyRueben]

I would find it odd that a frigate that really gets F'ed in combat takes days to repair in the overworld, but somehow a carrier is supposed to be able to do those same repairs in seconds? Yes, I realize that this is already the case for fighters, but does that really excuse more broken game mechanics? Also, do people really have trouble flying late game frigates? I'm not the best player out there, but I still have the most fun piloting a Lasher at any stage of the game.

[icepick37]

I haven't had trouble with late game frigates. Shrug. It is different tactics, but I dunno that I'd really call it harder necessarily.

[Durendal5150]

Complete and utter ***

What...have...I...done?

[Temjin]

Complete and utter ***

What...have...I...done?

Created a healthy, living, breathing debate between people with very different ideas for Starfarer balance and "fun" 

Stay a while, and listen!

[Iscariot]

This is hardly a sh*tstorm. This is a very reasonable debate. The suggestions forum is no place for backslaps and high fives. After all, if it's gonna be coded in, it had better be properly debated.