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Author Topic: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!  (Read 8322 times)

Arcagnello

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Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« on: April 14, 2021, 03:31:34 PM »

The floodgates have been opened for the inevitable sea of grammar/syntax errors to flow down below. Read carefully!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-H8PuweRVA

As you've probably guessed by my latest threads, I'm playing a frigade-focused campaign and I've been integrating three hullmods into Scarabs and Hyperions with quite impressive results, but I've now finally managed to to reach peak meme:

Did you know Wolfpack Tactics also applies to any AI core as long as it controls an Explorarium/[Redacted] frigade?
Did you know you can have 6 overridden, souped-up Wolf frigades with High Energy Focus in your fleet commanded by a gamma core each?
Did you know (last one, I swear) AI Cores have all their skills Elite and that 6 of them can give your fleet 48% ECM for just 30FP?

I sure didn't until I started experimenting, and let me tell you it's glorious! I will have to give you an overview of why it works first tough.

My skill tree
I basically ignored both Combat and Industry skill trees (as you do, they're yucky, who even flies their ships nowadays  ::) ), double dipped into the technology tree and got myself more officers, more max CR, and a whole lot of frigade buffs from the technology tree.
Spoiler
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My Fleet
I'll be the first one to admit I've been a bit too lax in vomiting story points over my ships, some of which I even stored on my main planet since they just did not feel right in the fleet. In order:

Conquest Artillery Battlecruiser:
I wanted the most mobile capital I could get my hands on and that happened to be the Conquest. I really wished for an easy trio of Odissey battlecruisers until I realized the good thing about the Conquest is that it can kite backwards , can vomit double Gauss 2000 units away from the enemy and I've basically set it up to be the best possible Hurricane Delivery System it can be.
Spoiler
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Heron Fast Strike Carrier
And usually escorting the Conquest is some of these, depending on the mission. As you can see I've been quite the dumbdumb with integrating hullmods and the ship would work a lot better with Integrated Nav Relay, ECM Package and Expanded Deck Crew. I would've been able to also give the ship hardened subsystems that 3 way. I guess it will be for the next campaign. Just be glad I did not put Safety Overrides on it. Yes, it actually crossed my mind. I have a Problem.
Spoiler
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Gryphon Support Missile Cruiser
I will admit I got hyped up by Harpoon Affectionado, Thaago and decided to bring double gryphon along for the ride. I even managed to not Override these too if you can believe that, the even seem to manage to keep up with the Conquest they're supposed to be escorting! I could've given this bad boy ECM/Nav package too in retrospect, but I foolishly decided to make it more durable if it happens to come anywhere near the enemy. bad choice, learning experience for next campaign :P
Spoiler
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Hyperion Advanced Assault Gunship
Now, I know, I know I could've probably slapped 10 of these and the fleet would work better overall, but where's the fun in that? I've currently got two in the fleet (planning on getting 4) and they do their job very well, which is wrecking anything small and immobilizing the enemy for the remaining missile boats in my fleet to set their sights on them. You can read the various feats of both Hyperion and the next entry in my fleet in this thread ( https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20871.0 )
Spoiler
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Scarab Heavy Overridden Frigade
I honesty like this thing a lot more than the Hyperion, and I feel like it's only less Overpowered than the Hyperion only because it's just worth 8DP and you can't really field an entire fleet of these like you can with the Hyperion. It's got great PD capabilities and that trio of AM blasters wich usually have their reload speed boosted by the Temporal Shell are not a joke either. I'm planning to eventually shelf these when I get 4 Hyperions.
Spoiler
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Glimmer Assault Droneship
And here it is! I love this thing! It's great fun to watch it unload on everything without a care in the word and not having an existential crysis on every phase skimmer like the Radiant AI.
Spoiler
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It's a very simple ship. All weapons point forward, there is only two damn weapon groups and it just works.Kills a simulation Eagle too, what more can you ask for? The truly impresive things about these are:
-the 238 combat speed
-the flux capacity and 360 shield giving it quite the impressive survivability with something so small with Fearless AI
-the absolutely bonkers 254 seconds of Peak Performance Time, something you'd expect out of an Overridden cruiser, not a frigade
This of course in addition to the Gamma Core heavily weighing in on the power balance and providing 8% ECM for each one of these puppies that gets deployed if you also have the Electronic Warfare Technology Skill.

They will actually chase ships down to the end of the sector and back, immobilize it and eventually kill it, including an Officered Doom if you just so happen to have trouble with those. 360 shields, minuscule hull and 200+ speed surely help!
Spoiler
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I've actually wiped a 300k+ bounty consisting of 4 Dooms (not all of them were with an officer and the fleet as a whole was small, I'll admit that), 2 Astrals and a plethora of other phase ships with no losses thanks to these little buggers. The game gave me a 40ish percent bonus exp for the battle difficulty but the enemy could not even deploy over 130 DP due to my unholy mountain of human and artificial officers!
Spoiler
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It works great against [Redacted] Ordos too, just spam all 6 of these at the start of the baattle to grab all the Buoys, then deploy your hard hitters and have them shave off enemies one by one while all the little itty bitty frigades drive the enemy crazy and divide its forces by costantly capturing and contesting buoys!
Edit: I'm currently exploring the sector and doing high payout bounties which resulted in an abdundance of story points leading me to do this:
Spoiler
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Don't do it, I just wanted to fully weaponize my campaign meme to get it endgame ready but I'm pretty sure there are better ways to spend 4 story points than roiding up a 5 Deployment Points frigade.

Sample fights
This is a brief collection of difficult fights that showcase the utility of the various fleet's elements. I'll add the various spoilery fights when I eventually get to them.

Double 300k bounty
I was in the middle of exploring when I got jumped by around 600k worth of bounties orbiting the same planet when I was not looking with a battle difficulty exp multiplier of 257%. The sheer amount of stuff in the fleet in combination with the great amount of cruisers threwat me forced two consecutive engagements since even my Conquests, Griphons and Herons started to suffer from CR degradation at the end of the first fight. After the CR of my frigades was rock bottom I retreated them (fun sidenote: it takes the Hyperion around 20 seconds to retreat from anywhere on the map) and proceded to grind the enemy to nothingness thanks to a full 180 deployment points of Conquests, Griphons and Herons. I don't have any pretty battle screenshots to showcase for this fight sadly.
End of the first engament: my losses
Spoiler
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and the enemy losses
Spoiler
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End Of the Second engagement (I lost no ship here, only the enemy)
Spoiler
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Recovery Screen (all the ships lost were fished back into the fleet)
Spoiler
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Now that's some tasty exp, I think that earned me a whole story point by itself!
Spoiler
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Salvage screen of the battle
Spoiler
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3xParagon 5x Doom meme bounty

I had stuff to do this evenning so I'm going to do this the lazy way and quote myself
What in Ludd's good name is that bounty :o? And how is triple Paragon/quad Doom not even worth three times as much as a pirate fleet which doesn't field any capitals, insofar that the Atlas MK. II counts as such?

Beyond that I am looking at the OP and am in the process of taking notes...;D

So, uh, I went to see what the actual bounty fleet looked like:
Spoiler
[close]

And, spoiler alert, I actually beat it only losing (and then recovering) 3 frigades. I'm actually really surprised. I guess giving the enemy a bad case of extreme sensory overload works wonders against capital-class ships. They won't be firing their weapons or properly using the ship systems most of the time.

Initial Deployment
Spoiler
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The Donut capital starting to feel really alone there in the middle of the map
Spoiler
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The Donut capital REALLY wishing it had accellerated shields right now
Spoiler
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Enemy can only deploy 135FP worth of stuff after the first Paragon got disabled. That's how disgusting Gamma Core officer stacking plus 10 normal officers can get
Spoiler
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Glimmer actually managing to annoy a Doom long enough for it to overflux itself and get deleted by a double Hurricane from the Conquest
Spoiler
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Spawncamping the filthy phase weebs
Spoiler
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Bullying the second donut while the last doom is having a good old time being chased around by 360 shield frigades wasting its time
Spoiler
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Second Donut being pelted by frigades while it's distracted by the artillery COnquest and carriers. This is why I always suggest giving Paragons Accellerated Shields, Front Shields AND stabilized shields even before considering Hardened Shields, this would not happen so easily.
Spoiler
[close]
Hyperion soloing an officered Doom by itself after it was done with giving the second donut capital the buisness
Spoiler
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Fight result screen. Watching that Last paragon deploy just to immediatelt rout was hilarious.
Spoiler
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Bounty completion and Exp value. Funny how two no-capital 300k bounty fleets paid out more than a single one with 3 paragons and 4 Dooms.
Spoiler
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10 Questionable Conquest Fleet
I honestly expected this to be way more difficult than what It ended up being (especially considering it's nearly 400k in rewards), which is due to the horrid setups most of the 10 Conquests. And why in holy Ludd are they giving an Enforcer the priviledge of an officer before all the Conquests? Can someone explain this to me?
Fleet Bounty
Spoiler
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Actual Fleet Composition
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Hyperion soloing one of the most pathetically autofitted Conquest designs I've ever seen
Spoiler
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This Champion is not having a good time
Spoiler
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The battle has now degraded into a spawncamping massacre
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I've actually tried to pilot a scarab in this and got myself exploded within 20 seconds. Watching YT videos while driving a squishy frigade going at 500 units per second is not advisable. The one Glimmer just exploded like Glimmers do and this is the first time I've actually lost a Hyperion in battle. It litterally teleported itself right in front of a Hurricane and did not raise the shield up in time. I guess shooting everything everywhere until something sticks is the one true counter for the doom equivalent in the frigade world.
Spoiler
[close]
Man you really do earn story points quite fast with the latest version of the game, this admittedly mediocre battle earned me a whole story point!
Spoiler
[close]



Big Hegemony Chungus Fleet
My first high value Hegemony bounty consisting of 4 Onslaughts, 1 Legion, 3 Eagles and two Dominators as the main force. At least this one had all capital ships with an officer on it.
Spoiler
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Actual fleet composition
Spoiler
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There's not much to say here, the enemy fleet did actually beat me in the original Deployment Points
Spoiler
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But they had way too little frigades to contest them against my roided up squirrel squad so the battle eventually because a spawncamp farm
Spoiler
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And good news, I've finally managed to grow some restraint and not kill myself while driving a Scarab for more than 30 seconds.
Spoiler
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And this is the exp reward. Getting a whole story point for these battles still seems crazy to me.
Spoiler
[close]


This thread was long, as long as it took a Madman to achieve his dark desires and overrun the Sector with an army of weaponized hazelnuts. May he be forgotten either in life or in the cold, unforgiving loneliness of the vaccum. Thank you for reading this recorded message.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 10:35:02 AM by Arcagnello »
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Thaago

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 03:38:58 PM »

Nice fleet! And 254 seconds on a built in SO frigate... just wow, thats crazy.

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pairedeciseaux

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2021, 03:53:05 PM »

It works great against [Redacted] Ordos too, just spam all 6 of these at the start of the baattle to grab all the Buoys, then deploy your hard hitters and have them shave off enemies one by one while all the little itty bitty frigades drive the enemy crazy and divide its forces by costantly capturing and contesting buoys!

But... that's like... an unholy space harassment force. You have been reported to authorities, you'll be charged as a vile Ordos murderer. May Ludd have mercy upon your soul.

On a more serious note, I think people should avoid getting too much used/addicted to built-in SO, because I suspect it won't stay in the game, at least not in this form. I tried Unstable Injector instead of SO on Hyperion, and it's decent, though of course there is a lot more flux management going on.  ;D
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Arcagnello

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2021, 04:22:59 PM »

It works great against [Redacted] Ordos too, just spam all 6 of these at the start of the baattle to grab all the Buoys, then deploy your hard hitters and have them shave off enemies one by one while all the little itty bitty frigades drive the enemy crazy and divide its forces by costantly capturing and contesting buoys!

But... that's like... an unholy space harassment force. You have been reported to authorities, you'll be charged as a vile Ordos murderer. May Ludd have mercy upon your soul.

On a more serious note, I think people should avoid getting too much used/addicted to built-in SO, because I suspect it won't stay in the game, at least not in this form. I tried Unstable Injector instead of SO on Hyperion, and it's decent, though of course there is a lot more flux management going on.  ;D

I can explain, Hegemony Inspector!

You see, it is said the Safety Override rebalance draws one day closer for every AI core popped out of [Redacted] salvage immediately asking for a psychiatric hospital!

If anything, you should thank me for doing the Sector a service, now please come to the dining area for lunch and skip the visit to the Colony Administrator, I'm told a person with such inhuman skills has to rest at least 8 hours a day!

Nice fleet! And 254 seconds on a built in SO frigate... just wow, thats crazy.

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I accept, nay, revel!, in this moniker.

The Lumen gets over 12 minutes of PPT without Safety Overrides. Imagine it with an Ion beam, unstable injector, advanced optics and the Helmsmanship skill on the AI core commanding it.

Fun and engaging gameplay right there for the enemy.

Now, if only we could opt for giving Alex our community crafted [Redacted] ship loadouts to actually make them scary and not just unfair with the Alpha core officer spam, that and maybe some integrated hullmod on some random units to spice things up?

The radiants I've seen with Graviton Beams on the large energy mounts...*shudders*.

Glad you like the monicker  ;D
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 04:27:37 PM by Arcagnello »
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Azure

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2021, 05:58:16 PM »

Why do you run bulkheads over something like hardened shields? (on the SO hyperion and scarab) Is there some sort of math behind it? My gut feeling is that you use just try and use the extra flux to take advantage of your shields and avoid hull damage but I dunno if that's less "optimal"?
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Arcagnello

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2021, 07:28:10 PM »

Why do you run bulkheads over something like hardened shields? (on the SO hyperion and scarab) Is there some sort of math behind it? My gut feeling is that you use just try and use the extra flux to take advantage of your shields and avoid hull damage but I dunno if that's less "optimal"?

Mostly ignorance, I'll be the first one to admit it.

I have absolutely no clue on how Reinforced Bulkheads, Reliability Eingeneering and Wolfpack tactics stack their "ship recovery chance" togheder and if I can get to 100% recovery without needing a story point with just two out of the three things.

My suggestion to you? Integrate Hardened Shields instead of Bulkheads and pray Wolfpack Tactics and Reliability Eingeneering cut it.
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c plus one

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2021, 07:31:29 PM »

Why do you run bulkheads over something like hardened shields? (on the SO hyperion and scarab)

While on the game's ship-refit screen, read the tooltip for the Reinforced Bulkheads refit. It tells you that if a ship equipped with R.B. is disabled in combat, the hull will not break apart and is almost always recoverable after the battle. When you have ships whose hulls are uncommon or rare and thus, hard to acquire in quantity -- Scarabs & Hyperions are superb examples of this! -- then the installation of R.B. is a wise move to safeguard your investment in hulls which you cannot otherwise replace quickly, or cannot replace at all.
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Thaago

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2021, 08:21:44 PM »

AFAIK all the "almost always" skills for recovery actually mean always, but there is a bug that just popped up possibly about switching flagships.
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2021, 09:55:42 PM »

This perk isn't that bad as it looks at first glance. Its actually pretty good.
But if somebody wanted whole fleet of redacted or derelict drones then yes - it is big disappointment.

Arcagnello

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 02:37:10 AM »

This perk isn't that bad as it looks at first glance. Its actually pretty good.
But if somebody wanted whole fleet of redacted or derelict drones then yes - it is big disappointment.

It's true the 30 Automated Ship Points are very low. Your current best options for using the skill are the following:

-6 Glimmers with a Gamma Core Each, 30DP in total, 60 Automated Ship Points (30 from ships, 30 from cores) , all sitting at around 42-45CR depending on fleet size

-2 Brilliants with a Beta Core Each, 50DP in total, 64 Automated Ship Points (50 from ships, 14 from cores), all sitting barely at or above 41% CR

-1 Radiant with our one true god, Alpha Core, at the helm. 40DP of amazing game balance in total, 50 Automated Ship Points (40 from ships, 10 from the core) and sitting above 50% CR unless your fleet is severely bloated.

If Automated Ship Points from the Automated Ships skill were boosted to around 50/60 then all automated ships the player can obtain would have to undergo a significant rebalance.

Radiant is worth 60 Deployment Points, if not more. It's basically a Paragon with the mobility of a destroyer and one more large energy weapon, a better shield that does not screw with the AI due to the ship skill and enough potential flux capacity to fully empty 5 Autopulse lasers with expanded magazines without overloading; the only "bad" aspect of it being that the 4 front facing, side synergy mounts can't mount small energy/missile weapons and are therefore left empty most of the time unless you're building the ship to have 4 Sabot MRMs and Hammer Barrages/Cyclone Reaper Launchers.

Brilliant is fine for the most part. It's more or less a Weaponized Gaming Mouse that actually possesses enough flux stats to fire all its weapons without performing a blood ritual to Moloch, unlike the Dominator and the Champion. It's also the only [Redacted] able to mount two medium ballistic weapons in the front medium hardpoints, making it range from very potent with a Heavy Needler/HIL/Ion Beam setup or straight up a capital ship bully if you Integrate Safety Overrides, install Expanded Magazines on it and then give it two Heavy Machineguns, One Ion Pulser, One Autopulse Laser, One Heavy Burst Laser and two Antimatter Blasters. I would really like it to be rebalanced to be worth 30 Deployment Points but already coming with Expanded Deck "Crew" so that it can actually use its fighter bay, because who in their right mind would even waste 15 Ordinance Points on the second best Overridden Cruiser into making a single danm fighter bay remotely useful, even ignoring the fact it can only field drone fighter LPCs?

Fulgent is disappointing. It's a missile boat with an identity crisis that has horrible flux dissipation and comes with High Intensity Focus as ship system. This would be comparable to giving a Heron carrier Accellerated Ammo Feeder. I would rebalance it to be 18-20 Deployment points, give it better base flux dissipation, have its front medium energy hardpoint converted into a synergy hardpoint, Give either integrated ECCM or Expanded Missile Racks and change the ship system into Missile Autoforge. It would at least be considered as an option over its competition.

Scintilla would be a great carrier if its one bomber option did not suck so much. It's a 15 DP drone carrier with the same ship system as the Astral and the ability to install a gamma core with all the fighter/bomber related skills on Elite status. It's decent using Lux Heavy Fighters but that mostly wastes the Teleport. Flash bombers are a disappointment and push this poor droneship into irrelevancy. I would see it getting a lot better the moment Alex intruduced more [Redacted] content.

Glimmer is obviously great if you've read this thread, it's just that the AI setups the game throws at you are meh at best. It has no phase skimmer so all (non-Overridden) versions should at least come with Unstable Injector to not get run over and killed due to its poor mobility as a frigade. It needs to only use energy weapons to make effective use of the High Energy Focus and can work with both long range and short range roles as you can see on this thread ( https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=20566.msg314234#msg314234 ). I would maybe nerf it to 6 Deployment Points.

Lumen is too small for its own good. 4 synergy weapons able to use either energy weapons or missiles is one of the worst frigade loadouts in the entire game. It either has too little firepower to do anything useful or too little ordinance points to reliably run missiles with Expanded missile racks/ECCM. The one good thing about the ship is its inherent survivability thanks to its Phase Skimmer. I would honestly reduce its Deployment Points down to just 3.

Post Scriptum: I've got a few Fulgents on my home planet, will check the weapons on it to correct the above statements if I'm overly incorrect.

AFAIK all the "almost always" skills for recovery actually mean always, but there is a bug that just popped up possibly about switching flagships.

Are there any cold, hard stats regarding recovery chances?
How much do Reinforced Bulkheads, Wolfpack tactics, Reliability Eingeneering and Damage Control have each?
What's the "recovery chance treshold" at which you can recover a ship without using a story points with absolute certainty? How many of the above skills and in what combination are needed to reach it?
Can the recovery chance go above 100%? What happens if it does? Does the surplus chance translate into less likelyhood of getting D-mods upon recover or is the Field repairs skill the only one able to do that?

So many questions for a very important mechanic, so little aswers the game actually gives you.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 02:55:03 AM by Arcagnello »
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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2021, 02:49:38 AM »

I have lost a Fury before. I don't actually remember how. I remember that was when I wasn't put reinforced bulkheads everywhere. Maybe I just forgot to recover it after battle. But what I know from experience is that when you have reliable engineering on player character and your flagship dies, if you transfer command to another ship your dead flagship is lost since your reliable engineering perk is transferred to the other ship.
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Arcagnello

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2021, 03:07:46 AM »

I have lost a Fury before. I don't actually remember how. I remember that was when I wasn't put reinforced bulkheads everywhere. Maybe I just forgot to recover it after battle. But what I know from experience is that when you have reliable engineering on player character and your flagship dies, if you transfer command to another ship your dead flagship is lost since your reliable engineering perk is transferred to the other ship.

Would you look at that, one more reason to not bother with the Combat Tree or piloting any of your own ships  ::)
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Thaago

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2021, 09:59:35 AM »

As far as I know, every single one of those gives 100% recovery chance, they don't stack, and they have no effect on D mods. There's a bug happening at the moment though, so if you ever see yourself losing a ship that has one report it.
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Arcagnello

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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2021, 06:06:20 AM »

As far as I know, every single one of those gives 100% recovery chance, they don't stack, and they have no effect on D mods. There's a bug happening at the moment though, so if you ever see yourself losing a ship that has one report it.

I'll write that down and staple it on the wall behind my monitor so that I never forget.

I've edited the OP with the following:

-I slightly modified the Glimmer droneship frigade setup to have the double IR Pulse lasers on the back turrets instead of on the hardpoints, I used to have two mining lasers on there but they're mostly unnecessary now that the design has a 360 shield. It has a slightly better time shooting down enemy fighters.

-I've added some brief descriptions of difficult fights with screenshots, I'll also see to add
Spoiler
the big phase chungus
[close]
,
Spoiler
the dorito bag tag team
[close]
and the
Spoiler
uber remnant bounty with integrated hullmods and the one tesseract
[close]
when I get to them!
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Re: Fly my [Redacted] pretties!
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2021, 06:40:23 AM »

This is really cool! It's the one skill I've not even touched yet just because the limit looked so tight, but I'm not one to argue with results. For my next game I've been planning to soft-RP another Tri-Tachyon high-techy fleet and I suppose there's no finer a time to start messing around with the REDACTEDs too. :D
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