Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery  (Read 2829 times)

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« on: April 14, 2021, 05:59:46 AM »

Player cannot recover such ships if he has no story points.

And guaranteed recovery was guaranteed with no further strings beyond d-mods attached in previous releases.

Player with guaranteed recovery features on his ships should recover his own protected ships without need for story points.  (Unprotected ships are fair game for difficult.)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 06:02:37 AM by Megas »
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4112
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2021, 08:08:08 AM »

I never paid attention to it, but if you really can get your own ships with a guaranteed recovery tossed in the SP recovery pile, then it's no longer guaranteed, since there's no guarantee you will have (enough) story points at hand.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2021, 08:50:28 AM »

... the heck? If that's happening that's a bug. Looking at the code, though, it's unclear how that might happen.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2021, 08:53:01 AM »

It happened to me in one of my last two fights.  One was against the Ziggurat, and another was against an endgame fleet bounty.  I do not remember if it happened in one or both of them.
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3784
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2021, 09:22:34 AM »

I've seen this happen specifically when my flagship is destroyed, and I then transfer command to a different ship.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2021, 09:24:37 AM »

Ahhh, that might do it. Made a note!
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2021, 09:54:55 AM »

I've seen this happen specifically when my flagship is destroyed, and I then transfer command to a different ship.
I remember losing the flagship in the Alpha site fight.
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2021, 02:23:43 PM »

I updated to RC14, and this happened again.  This time, I had lost a Fury wingman in battle.  No Reinforced Bulkheads on the ship, but it had an officer with Reliability Expertise for the guaranteed recovery, except I had to spend a story point to recover it.
Logged

bobucles

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2021, 02:27:29 PM »

Player talents override officer talents. Nothing new about that. That could cause guaranteed recovery talents to become active or inactive when the player takes over.
When the player abandons their flagship, the flagship loses perks. That's a way to lose guaranteed recovery.


It might make sense to have guaranteed recovery not affected by the player jumping around, and having it stick to the player's chosen flagship even if they leave it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 02:33:55 PM by bobucles »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2021, 02:39:31 PM »

Player talents override officer talents. Nothing new about that. That could cause guaranteed recovery talents to become active or inactive when the player takes over.
When the player abandons their flagship, the flagship loses perks. That's a way to lose guaranteed recovery.
The incident I just posted had nothing to do with the flagship.  The Fury was under AI control the whole time, and I did not swap ships in that fight.
Logged

oooh_senpai

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2021, 02:42:26 PM »

I think that guaranted recovery should always work if player was in a ship at the moment of boom, and also if player controls the officered ship which have that skill. Cause you won't really be sitting in a wreck watching your fleet diyng.
Logged

bobucles

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2021, 02:45:03 PM »

The incident I just posted had nothing to do with the flagship.  The Fury was under AI control the whole time, and I did not swap ships in that fight.
Excessive D mods can eventually overwhelm the talent and make the ship a tough recovery.

Doesn't combat damage on a corpse affect the rate of ship recovery? A tiny ship getting dusted in the middle of battle might be overriding the talent.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 02:46:34 PM by bobucles »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2021, 02:48:42 PM »

I think that guaranted recovery should always work if player was in a ship at the moment of boom, and also if player controls the officered ship which have that skill. Cause you won't really be sitting in a wreck watching your fleet diyng.
It would be nice for it to work on all ships that were piloted by the player.  I had exploded more than one flagship in a fight before.

Override can work against you if you do not have a recovery skill but the officer does.

Still, it would be nice that recovery skills which always allow normal recovery instead of difficult recovery.  AI blows their ships up at times without player intervention, and difficult recovery for guaranteed recovery is annoying, even if I get +100% xp for the trouble.

The incident I just posted had nothing to do with the flagship.  The Fury was under AI control the whole time, and I did not swap ships in that fight.
Excessive D mods can eventually overwhelm the talent and make the ship a tough recovery.

Doesn't combat damage on a corpse affect the rate of ship recovery? A tiny ship getting dusted in the middle of battle might be overriding the talent.
The Fury was pristine before death, and the enemy did not overkill it.  Since I had Field Repairs, Fury was recovered with only a single d-mod.
Logged

bobucles

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 532
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2021, 03:01:56 PM »

I think that guaranted recovery should always work if player was in a ship at the moment of boom, and also if player controls the officered ship which have that skill. Cause you won't really be sitting in a wreck watching your fleet diyng.
Does the talent concern the officer's skill in having their ship blow up nicely? Or does it concern the officer's recovery team picking up the pieces? There is a fair argument to be made either way.

IMO, recovery belongs in the after action report. Officers work with their recovery team to pick up the pieces, and the player admiral returns to their flagship to do the same. None of the teams interfere with each other during that time, making the recovery rules the same after battle as they were at the start.

Morrokain

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2143
  • Megalith Dreadnought - Archean Order
    • View Profile
Re: Guaranteed recovery should never be "Difficult" recovery
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2021, 03:20:41 PM »

It would be nice for it to work on all ships that were piloted by the player.  I had exploded more than one flagship in a fight before.

Only thing here is that might become too exploitable, you know? See an unguaranteed recoverable ship about to die - quickly transfer command to make it guaranteed recoverable. Then just transfer back to the primary flagship, etc. I mean sure there would be a window for disaster in a tightly contested fight (both ships lost and difficult to recover) but it would be a pretty small window overall.

Imo it should probably just be the ship the player started the battle in.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2