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Author Topic: Radiant should be 60 DP  (Read 6447 times)

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2021, 12:38:37 PM »

I mean, officers will definitely get more value. I don't think there's any way 2 extra fully skilled officers or 8 skills and 8 elite skills are not more value than IM on the player ship.
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Maethendias

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2021, 12:41:21 PM »

radiant should be a BALANCED BATTLESHIP instead of the op nonsense we got for "lore reasons"

the radiant being an "op" battleship would be fine, if it wasnt possible to SPAM radiants... which it absolutely is
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Thaago

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2021, 02:01:02 PM »

I mean, officers will definitely get more value. I don't think there's any way 2 extra fully skilled officers or 8 skills and 8 elite skills are not more value than IM on the player ship.

Hmmm, I'm really not sure. Either IM or Ranged are very strong skills, players are much better than the AI, and the player ship is usually the strongest and most invested in ship on the field. If IM lets my player ships survive twice as long (and it can, easily), then yeah thats more powerful than another 2 officers or extra officer skills. Especially the extra officer skills, as officers usually already have the 5 best skills for their ship, so the 6th is comparatively less needed.

radiant should be a BALANCED BATTLESHIP instead of the op nonsense we got for "lore reasons"

the radiant being an "op" battleship would be fine, if it wasnt possible to SPAM radiants... which it absolutely is

I agree it could use a DP bump.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2021, 06:30:02 AM »

People try to get a lot of ecm-mule Lumen into their build when in other threads people are actually turning Glimmers into engines of destruction.
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Wyvern

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2021, 12:16:16 PM »

Especially the extra officer skills, as officers usually already have the 5 best skills for their ship, so the 6th is comparatively less needed.
The one key benefit to being able to train officers to level six - and the one that's not documented anywhere - is that a level five officer will never have both skills from the same tier.

So, for example, if you want an officer to have Point Defense without losing the effectively-mandatory Target Analysis - the only way that can happen is if you can raise officers to level six...
...And get very lucky with the skill selection; even with the mentoring option you frequently won't have the skill selection you want; usually it'll use up four of the six slots with whichever two skill pairs you didn't take on your way to level five, leaving you with only two chances out of five to get the skill you want to double-up on.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2021, 12:29:38 PM »

Also, you get a second elite skill which can be very good or useless depending on the exact officer
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TaLaR

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2021, 12:37:53 PM »

So, for example, if you want an officer to have Point Defense without losing the effectively-mandatory Target Analysis - the only way that can happen is if you can raise officers to level six...

We really need lootable officers that come with pre-determined skills as level 6 or 7 to just have higher cap instead. This degree of RNG belongs in gacha hell, not a proper single player game.
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Ad Astra

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2021, 01:36:02 PM »

We really need lootable officers that come with pre-determined skills as level 6 or 7 to just have higher cap instead. This degree of RNG belongs in gacha hell, not a proper single player game.

I don't know man, adding some cool "cling and ka-ching" sound effects and a golden shining background when you get a decent one could go a long way...

"5-star SSR officer getto!"-Some very excited Japanese fellow presumably.
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Chthonic One

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2021, 03:38:29 PM »

People try to get a lot of ecm-mule Lumen into their build when in other threads people are actually turning Glimmers into engines of destruction.
Glimmers never drop for me as salvage.

Lumens at least are pretty good at combat.
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Rauschkind

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2021, 04:16:36 PM »

i think the radiant is vastly undervalued at 40 dp. its much stronger then a paragon in every way which has a dp of 60.
arguing that having it at 60 would make the automated ships skill to weak is a bad arguement. if that skill is to weak without having an utterly undervalued super ship to claim, the skill needs a boost. it does not say anything about the radiant though.

also: having it at 40dp makes fighting the remnants extremely hard as soon as they have this ship in it. there is just an extreme jump in difficulty and i find it extremely hard to win without using ships like doom once there is more then one of them in a fleet, especially as remnant fleets have huge advantages across the board because they get vastly superiour officers already.
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SCC

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2021, 07:21:03 AM »

I played with a Radiant on my side for some time now. It should definitely be 60 DP. It's stronger than a Tessaract. Well, admittedly, it can also be that high-tech (even with nerfed EWM) is bonkers, or that a Radiant + high-tech combo is bonkers. Either way, Automated Ships is the most meaningful skill in my campaign.

Arcagnello

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2021, 07:36:34 AM »

People try to get a lot of ecm-mule Lumen into their build when in other threads people are actually turning Glimmers into engines of destruction.

I prefer Hazelnuts Of The Apocalypse, but I'll take the compliment regardless, if you're indeed referring to the "Fly My Pretties" thread  ;D

But yes, back on topic. Radiant deserves to be bumped up to 60DP, and that I would call going light with the Nerfhammer.

Think about it: One more large mount and the same amount of medium/small mounts as the Paragon all pointing at the front, but the Radiant gets a mobility skill from a frigade and 1500 armor, which skyrockets to over 2000 with Heavy armor and Armored weapon mounts. I don't have the numbers at hand but I'm almost sure the Radiant even has significantly better flux stats.

Ludd save us, a Hammer barrage/Typhoon Reaper Launcher + Sabot SRM pod, triple or just double Smod Radiant with a fully integrated Alpha Core beats a Paragon and an Astral behind it in the simulator by itself, under AI control in under 90 seconds. And this is without the Derelict Contingent cheese.


I'm not trying to insinuate that anyone that does not recognize it's the most broken, AI controlled ship you can possibly get more than one of in your fleet is in the wrong, but they sure as Mammon (and possibly Moloch) have a skewed vision of game balance.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 07:40:36 AM by Arcagnello »
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Megas

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2021, 07:44:37 AM »

It is horribly overpowered, and I am fine with that because the alternative skill, Special Modifications, is also overpowered, and Radiant has low CR if player does not have Crew Training and a small fleet.

All Remnants should be overpowered like Radiant, not Radiant weakened to match best-in-class human ships (or only overpowered if they avoid everyone until enemy PPT expires first).

However, I would not mind if Radiant's OP was raised to 50, especially if it gets more CR.  Sub-50 CR is annoying.  Right now, Radiant is a semi-hangar queen for getting into malfunction territory after one fight.
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Retry

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2021, 08:23:38 AM »

All Remnants should be overpowered like Radiant, not Radiant weakened to match best-in-class human ships (or only overpowered if they avoid everyone until enemy PPT expires first).
Fighting Remnants is annoying enough when you have to watch for Remnant "super"caps supported by merely very-good warships, all supported by mountains of ECM and buffed by fountains of super officers.

I can only imagine the frustration that would be caused if the Remnant Ordo's Radiants started being escorted by Remnant Tempest+'s and Omen+'s, screened by Medusa+'s, while Fury+ kill squads roam the edges of the map.

Hopefully that remains solely in the realm of the imagination.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Radiant should be 60 DP
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2021, 10:22:35 AM »

I think SCC's initial suggestion in this thread was more or less ideal, and there's no need to overcomplicate it; price the Radiant according to its power, and adjust the limit on the skill so the player isn't effectively choosing between one or two Radiants and various temporary novelty ships, but between one Radiant and a Radiant's worth of other Remnant ships.

(Another thing to consider is mods adding custom AI ships; under the current skill limits, you're never going to recover those ships and use them when you could have the underpriced, overpowered glory of a Radiant in your fleet - unless they're competitive with the Radiant. So it covertly encourages power-creep in AI ships, in order to get players to use them at all; pushing for Radiant clones with artificially low DP costs at the expense of other, more interesting options.)
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