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[Ad Astra]

Less memey, could I ask for a definition of "support"? I've been looking at the columns and I just can't tell what its supposed to mean. In particular, why does a Paragon have a 5 in support when it has no mobility, missiles, active helper system, or fighters? Is it the "zone" around it because of its large range?

I think they are going for the "support" definition used by default builds in the game, they are usually long ranged builds used to support brawlers when they are clashing against an enemy ship, beam builds fit here mostly.

[RemnantAI]

Odyssey plasma burn absolutely claps cheeks of anything sub capital.

Oh a 2v1 I don't like?  * Taps F twice and watches enemy ship fly across the screen*

Looks like a 1v1 now.

[SCC]

[edit] Less memey, could I ask for a definition of "support"? I've been looking at the columns and I just can't tell what its supposed to mean. In particular, why does a Paragon have a 5 in support when it has no mobility, missiles, active helper system, or fighters? Is it the "zone" around it because of its large range?

Support is mostly everything that isn't all other scores, so I probably need to rethink it. Paragon's high support score is mostly because of its range.

[Maethendias]

[edit] Less memey, could I ask for a definition of "support"? I've been looking at the columns and I just can't tell what its supposed to mean. In particular, why does a Paragon have a 5 in support when it has no mobility, missiles, active helper system, or fighters? Is it the "zone" around it because of its large range?

Support is mostly everything that isn't all other scores, so I probably need to rethink it. Paragon's high support score is mostly because of its range.

isnt paragon an excellent harraser tho? especially because of its range? it is pretty hard to not get fired on by the paragon...

speed isnt everything when you want to harrass enemies, dont need speed when you can fight across the whole map

[RemnantAI]

[edit] Less memey, could I ask for a definition of "support"? I've been looking at the columns and I just can't tell what its supposed to mean. In particular, why does a Paragon have a 5 in support when it has no mobility, missiles, active helper system, or fighters? Is it the "zone" around it because of its large range?

Support is mostly everything that isn't all other scores, so I probably need to rethink it. Paragon's high support score is mostly because of its range.

Yeah that 100% Range boost is substantial. well over 4000SU diameter coverage. The short fall is a low turn speed, but that reach is opressive.
isnt paragon an excellent harraser tho? especially because of its range? it is pretty hard to not get fired on by the paragon...

speed isnt everything when you want to harrass enemies, dont need speed when you can fight across the whole map

[Daynen]

  Also, atlas mk2 is super slow and squishy, and lacks the flux stats to back up it's weapon compliment. It definitely doesn't hang with other capitals, and I feel comfortable fighting them in cruisers.

Naaahh.  I blow up capitals in my MkII regularly.  It is slow and yes if you pilot poorly it can be wrecked, but that's part of its greatness: it makes YOU a better pilot.  As for flux?  I dunno what you're talking about; I've been running double mjolnirs since forever.  As long as you know when to go in with ammo feeder and when to back off to keep from getting flanked, it has enough flux to get the job done.  If you're really concerned you could downgrade to dual Hephaestus which is almost as good against most targets and perhaps a little better against smaller ones due to the denser field of fire.  Just don't go chasing frigates.  Enemy MkII's are a bit more of a threat than they used to be too; no matter what you're running, you don't just ignore two large ballistics on an ammo feeder.  That kind of pummeling can wreck you if you're careless.

The MK 2 just lacks PD. Other than that it is a decent early game capital. I don't see it lasting long against these monster fleets.

Whaaaat?  It's got six small ballistics spread out around the ship--ten if you decide to use the middle medium mounts for PD.  If it's fighters you're concerned about, just load up a locust or two on the missile slots and have some popcorn.  I last all day against monster fleets--though I tend to refer to them by other names, like... "non-consensual salvage" or "charitable donations to my cause."

I guess I need to do a video or something; people just seem unconvinced of the MAJESTY of the Mk2.  Perhaps they must BEHOLD its glory first hand...

[intrinsic_parity]

Atlas mkII has worse dissipation than several destroyers lol, and pretty much every combat cruiser has more dissipation and better capacity. There are many higher impact player ships.

However, I was referring to AI control. Under AI control, atlas Mk2 just dies very easily. I honestly just fly up to them and kill them in my aurora, AAF doesn't matter. I basically consider them as cruisers when evaluating enemy fleet strength, but easier to outmaneuver.

[RustyCabbage]

I appreciate that the thread title is becoming more clickbaity over time. Here's to more histrionics!

[Thaago]

In enemy fleets I consider Falcon Ps and Atlas Mk IIs to be about the same strength. Falcon is a tanky burst skirmisher, but in the end only has missiles and I've got PD. Dangerous to my backline ships. The Atlas Mk II has excellent gun and missile firepower, but if I can reach it without being interfered with I can pop it.

[Maethendias]

oh, while we are at it, why do people hate the shrike so much?

i never understood it... i found the shrike quite usefull

[Thaago]

No idea. It was a good ship last version with some strong points (high speed, excellent shield strength, excellent missiles) to balance its weaknesses (very fragile, reliance on energy weapons, only moderate flux, loses gun duels vs other higher cost destroyers), and then it got buffed this version with more OP. And Pulse Laser and IR Pulse got buffed as well via reduced flux cost.

If I were to hazard a guess though, its a combination of the default Shrike not having a kinetic weapon for anti shield and then builds using Heavy Blaster, an extremely poor anti-shield weapon, as its only gun. And then being disappointed in the anti-shield performance. Combos such as Pulse Laser + AM Blaster, Pulse laser + ion + ir pulse, 2x ir pulse + phase lance... etc etc all work a lot better than a heavy blaster.

[Maethendias]

No idea. It was a good ship last version with some strong points (high speed, excellent shield strength, excellent missiles) to balance its weaknesses (very fragile, reliance on energy weapons, only moderate flux, loses gun duels vs other higher cost destroyers), and then it got buffed this version with more OP. And Pulse Laser and IR Pulse got buffed as well via reduced flux cost.

If I were to hazard a guess though, its a combination of the default Shrike not having a kinetic weapon for anti shield and then builds using Heavy Blaster, an extremely poor anti-shield weapon, as its only gun. And then being disappointed in the anti-shield performance. Combos such as Pulse Laser + AM Blaster, Pulse laser + ion + ir pulse, 2x ir pulse + phase lance... etc etc all work a lot better than a heavy blaster.

but ir pulse, some ion cannons, sabots, and a mining blaster are enough shield damage to not care about shields...

i always have 2 so shrikes in case i have to fight these low volume remnant fleets, cause they are really good against remnant, despite in lack of kinetic weapons

not to mention 8 dp

[Thaago]

Right, I was talking non-SO where flux is still a concern... yeah built in SO shrikes just pile on the heavy weapons and go to town!

[SCC]

Mining Blaster is even worse than a Heavy Blaster.
Anyway, I think that especially with IR Pulse Laser, Pulse Laser and Ion Pulser buffs, Shrike is ok now. I probably need to take a look at destroyer strike scores.
I added the spoiler thing, Radiant and Brilliant to the list now, with other Remnant ships coming whenever I actually use them.
I should also rename "Harasser" to "Mobility" and "Lineholder" to "Durability", so that all the categories are properties, instead of half of them roles, the other half properties. Well, besides support.

I appreciate that the thread title is becoming more clickbaity over time. Here's to more histrionics!

Thanks!

[intrinsic_parity]

I suggested this in my skill post, but I think the phase skills should be removed, and some of the bonuses should be nerfed and worked into other skills. I think the idea of an over-specialized skill like that is kinda flawed because the skill has to be really strong to justify taking it over generally useful skills. I think the phase cooldown reduction should just be removed, and the speed boost while cloaked could be halved and moved into the elite helmsmanship perk or something.

Meant to post in the doom thread

I will say that energy weapon mastery plays  a big part in energy weapons working better as well