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[Timid]

To discuss Recovery Shuttle, one must know what it does first.

• Non-Logistic Hullmod
• Reduces the casualties suffered by fighter pilots by 75%.
• OP Cost: 3/6/9/15
• Sindrian Diktat/Lion's Guard, Remnants, Persean League, Luddic Church, and Independent can access this.
• Cannot be installed on automated ships or ships with no fighter bays.

My problem with this? It barely does anything. It's not noticeable to the player, it's not significant, and worst of it all, The AI fleets are hardly affected by it.

Through the opinion of others...

... why use recovery shuttles and blast doors when you can just buy new and just as efficient fodder [crews] at the nearest starport?

[In reference to the amount of crew loss] .... Recovery Shuttles are mandatory unless you like to bleed crew.

Without skills, Expanded Deck Crew is handy, and Recovery Shuttles is useful for not losing as much crew with Talon dominated wings.

... Crew losses are very severe when trying to employ this even with recovery shuttles, and that means sacrificing more performance for sake of economics of the tactic. Additionally, it's unlikely that you need to nerf fighter performance to make this tactic unviable. Future additions to the campaign layer probably will not let this sort of high crew loss rate be acceptable without say forcing you to go and get more too often or forcing you to keep your crew from committing mutiny for using them as fodder.

Doesn't need Surveying stuff as transports do that without having to sacrifice combat ability. I would instead use Recovery Shuttles to protect my precious crew.

As some folks already mentioned, we're talking about harsh, dystopian reality here, where people supposed to sell themselves for anything to get chunk of credits ... Well, they can even consider it lucky to serve under more or less caring space commander, as myself, since I tend to roll with Hardened Shields, Blast Doors and Recovery Shuttles whenever I can.

it's a strange discovery that this hullmod is any at all effective. It is a reduction of the crew tax for using wings. Once you start rolling in the credits, this hullmod becomes obsolete at this point. In the early game, you don't even start off with this and might not even see this until it's way too pointless and late to get them.

For the AI... this hullmod is ultimately useless. If it ever gets an autofit of this hullmod, they are fighting at a 15 OP disadvantage. Most of the time when you encounter an AI fleet either you die or they die. Crew casualties become pointless.

Maybe... the hullmod could either be converted as a logistic hullmod with reduced OP cost or they can use a minor buff in refitting time to synergize with expanded deck crews.

I do not know. Maybe it is perfectly balanced as it is or maybe it is just a hullmod that people will take early and then skip over like the Dedicated Targeting Unit vs Integrated Targeting Unit.

I offer this thread for people to discuss its usefulness after they are bankrolling in credits.

[Embolism]

I think Recovery Shuttles would make sense if crew levels were still a thing, i.e. retaining veteran pilots is necessary to maintain strike craft effectiveness. It would be nice for example to have a marine analogue to Recovery Shuttles (Combat Medical Facilities), I'd use that.

If we add a new "pilot" crew type that levels up like marines do and improves strike craft effectiveness... maybe some pilot-related skills... then Recovery Shuttles would be useful.

As it is since all crewmen are the same whether they're vets or landlubbers, Recovery Shuttles is pointless.

[SCC]

I'm still surprised people use this hullmod, instead of buying some more crew instead.

[Maethendias]

i think recovery shuttles is less of a "balance" mod, and more of a qol mod to not loose tons of crew when you out of the core worlds

[KDR_11k]

I'm not sure you can even lose enough fighters in a battle for this to matter. Blast doors can make more sense if you're on an extended deployment and don't want to end up undercrewed if a few of your ships get blown up and recovered since crew is hard to refill when you're far from civilization.

For the AI... this hullmod is ultimately useless. If it ever gets an autofit of this hullmod, they are fighting at a 15 OP disadvantage. Most of the time when you encounter an AI fleet either you die or they die. Crew casualties become pointless.

I think in terms of roleplay/universe cohesion it makes sense for AI fleets to not think of it like that. AI fleets shouldn't be specced purely for fighting the player, they should simulate a somewhat realistic configuration a captain would choose to survive in the void.

[Gotcha!]

I always install this, since I want my pilots to have a chance of survival (even though pilots are basically just a commodity).
Kinda wish it was 100% though, not 75%, since my gawd, fighters sure have a low survival chance in this game.
If I was a fighter pilot, I'd just eject myself out of the nearest airlock and get it over with.

[TaLaR]

The only thing it does is marginally decrease your spending (on crew), IF you use a lot of fighters (and who does that in 0.95 anyway?). Not worth it ever.

[Locklave]

If we add a new "pilot" crew type that levels up like marines do and improves strike craft effectiveness... maybe some pilot-related skills... then Recovery Shuttles would be useful.

This right here is gold and I love it. Please put that on the suggestion thread with a link here so I and people can support it.

Fighter pilots shouldn't really just be crew.

[oooh_senpai]

If we add a new "pilot" crew type that levels up like marines do and improves strike craft effectiveness... maybe some pilot-related skills... then Recovery Shuttles would be useful.

This right here is gold and I love it. Please put that on the suggestion thread with a link here so I and people can support it.

Fighter pilots shouldn't really just be crew.

I want all crew to have leveling, not pilots only, and maybe some punishment for losing crew (so they would feel like people, not just fuel you burn in combat). Who are all this people piloting enemy kites? Maybe some i-like-to-be-evaporized club members?

[ChaseBears]

Fighters die too much for a pilot-crew system with XP.  It would only matter in the first place if you had recovery shuttles and so you might as well put any effectiveness boost from pilot XP on the Recovery Shuttles mod itself.   

Especially hilarious would be your enforcers with converted hangars and Talons getting all your elite pilots killed while your elite trident squad flies in circles.

I have been forced to return to port from crew losses before but thats because of massive losses from tight battles, never bleed from fighters.  That skill from Industry that adds +50% cargo/fuel/berths or just taking a passenger ship are way more effective ways of combating crew bleed than recovery shuttles.  Perhaps Expanded Deck Crew could be split up - it keeps the base replacement rate bonus, and the replacement recovery rate bonus gets put onto Recovery Shuttles - representing the recovery of damaged chassis and experienced pilots reducing the stress on the carrier.

[Locklave]

I want all crew to have leveling, not pilots only, and maybe some punishment for losing crew (so they would feel like people, not just fuel you burn in combat). Who are all this people piloting enemy kites? Maybe some i-like-to-be-evaporized club members?

They are, all crew are now. Alex removed crew skill levels at some point in the past.

Everyone who is aware of that knows pushing for it is pointless.

[Euripides]

It doesn't matter because personnel don't matter

Make the personnel matter and saving them will start making some sense.
Imagine if you had "Elite fighter pilots" +25% fighter damage and speed. Cost 100x normal personnel.

Now you buy 100 mans and it costs you 100,000 credits (still chump change) but you have some incentive for them to stay alive. Its a pain in the ass to go buy more elite pilots, they are expensive. Lets try and keep them alive as long as possible.


Why would you want a hullmod that saves you disposable trash? Crew don't matter as long as you meet the minimum requirements. Until that changes and there's a reason to worry about crew losses besides being undermanned (a situation resolved with 5000 credits and a pitstop at literally any inhabitated station), hullmods like this will remain useless.

[Flet]

maybe make it also reduce replacement rate reduction or something (because higher morale)

[Megas]

I did not bother with crew reduction features (or bonus xp to crew) even when crew levels were a thing.

What I did not like about crew levels:
* Harder early game (crew was mostly green, with low CR)
* Meaningless late (more than enough elites to crew everything at the end, plus new to train replacements)
* Crew Tetris.  Did not like the mini-game of crew management.

Crew of varying levels were separate items, unlike today's marines.

Good riddance to crew levels.

[oooh_senpai]

I did not bother with crew reduction features (or bonus xp to crew) even when crew levels were a thing.

What I did not like about crew levels:
* Harder early game (crew was mostly green, with low CR)
* Meaningless late (more than enough elites to crew everything at the end, plus new to train replacements)
* Crew Tetris.  Did not like the mini-game of crew management.

Crew of varying levels were separate items, unlike today's marines.

Good riddance to crew levels.

It won't be something hard to manage in case of marine-like implementation and auto assignment (expirienced crew will automatically assigned to warships, no player control over it)