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Author Topic: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?  (Read 2377 times)

HUcast

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What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« on: April 10, 2021, 01:28:36 PM »

So, after playing twice through the game now in patch .95, I've noticed that without the skills and old bonuses to salvaging blueprints, I've been really struggling to get much of the blueprints and patterns I want. In one game, I restarted because I had explored probably 70% of the star systems and not found a single nanoforge, corrupted or otherwise. I almost never find blueprints for capitol ships either. Normally I wouldn't mind that stuff much, it's fine for rare things to be ultra rare, but there have even been times where I've explored a mining station or survey ship and received absolutely nothing but low value resources. I've taken down a mother drone ship and only received a single autonomous mantle bore, which I can't use because my mining operations are on habitable worlds.

I'd personally really like to see more breadcrumb aspects like drone probes leading to drone survey ships which lead to drone motherships in the exploration. They help limit the amount of dull empty systems you see. That, and making blueprints less likely to drop once you have learned a copy of them. I know its unrealistic but I've found the same midline and pirate LPCs probably 4-5 times now and am lacking any kind of capital blueprints for my colonies... What do you all think?
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TuxedoCatfish

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 01:39:13 PM »

I think it's fine the way it is now. Under the old system I often had like 90% of the blueprints in the entire game after a year or two, meaning as soon as I had colonies I could build absolutely everything I wanted except a few ultra-rarities that maybe I'd have to raid Tri-Tach or the Hegemony for. Now there's at least a little period where I have to make do instead of jumping straight from "you get whatever's on the market / whatever you can salvage" to "I can print infinite amounts of anything I want."

Plus we have the Historian now, who gives you a semi-guaranteed way to get rare loot and even some choice of exactly what to go for.

I also really hate the idea of loot-boosting or "+% magic find" skills in general because they're such an uninteresting choice; if the drop rate is too low then simply raising it, or giving the player more ways to declare and pursue the specific things they want, would both be better than re-implementing those as skills.
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Maethendias

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2021, 01:41:31 PM »

imo, the sector as a whole is just... too small

you clear the sector map way too fast for my liking

increasing the sector size would not only give more places to explore (and thus help with the loot distribution, aka you have more rolls available to get rares)

it would also adress the late game issue of... you know, not having any reason to leave the core sector anymore (or your own systems, of those are out in the rim)

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FelixG

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 01:43:13 PM »

I think RNG just hasn't been kind to you, I hjave explored just about a quarter of my sector, and I have Paragon, Astral, and Atlas blueprints already, along with most of the lower level ship pack BPs.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2021, 02:24:37 PM »

It's definitely RNG. 

I've started 2 real runs, and in both cases, I got an Odyssey blue print in like the 2nd or 3rd place I explored.  Of course, I prioritize non-probe, non-ship exploration intel missions, and take survey missions whenever they pop up.  My 1st run I got a total of 4 capital blueprints before finishing (Odyssey, Onslaught, Astral x2).  That was with exploring maybe half of the systems?  Map shows about 120 systems with [] for exploration, which means I haven't event stepped in those yet.  In storage I've got 32 duplicate fighter/weapon blueprints, 3 ship duplicate blueprints, an Atlas Mk II I didn't want to learn, and 18 duplicate package blueprints is what is sitting in my storage.  I've got an active bar mission for an Aurora blueprint.  Have 4 corrupted nanoforge (no pristine), 2 Syncrotrons, 13 other colony goodies (6 are duplicates as well).  Didn't find all the possible colony boosters that run either.
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KDR_11k

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2021, 02:41:29 PM »

RNG with such low chances just doesn't feel good. I have a bunch of corrupted nanoforges and hypershunt taps, for example, and haven't seen a single bore after exploring like 99% of the sector. My blueprint list still has some gaps although I got the Astral quite early from a secret compartment in a derelict ship. Had to raid Tri Tachyon to get a proper battleship blueprint.

It doesn't feel like you can do much about not finding things, it feels like it depends more on what the dice roll when you loot your 30th derelict station than a result of any gameplay decisions you make. Then again I don't go to the core worlds much when I'm still exploring, mostly just my own colonies to resupply and rarely checking the bars. I think I ran into the story teller once and didn't have the story point to use him. Yeah, it did feel too easy to max everything out in the last version if you made sure to get the rare loot boosting skill.

I guess luck to differentiate your runs makes sense but still it doesn't feel so great when it's all out of your hands. Smashing up a mothership and getting almost nothing for it and later getting loads of cool stuff from a random station gives it all a sense of arbitrariness.
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SapphireSage

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2021, 02:53:31 PM »

Personally, with the new skill system, I do not think that a +rare find skill would be such a good idea because it would encourage player behavior to respec into the skill when going out to explore and then respec out once you're done traversing the sector. In 0.9.1 putting points into +rare find was a sacrifice to get a bunch of BPs, forges, etc. early via exploration but then wasn't so useful after that but was stuck with you. Beyond that, you can still raid for a guaranteed pristine forge, 2 synchrotron cores, and probably 90% of BPs. The last few things you ought want can be grabbed from the historian as well, though them showing up can be hit or miss. Grabbing the things you want, unless its something ultra rare or powerful, shouldn't be impossible but it may be a bit inconvenient.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2021, 03:00:25 PM »

I am sort of ok with not getting every item in every run. It makes your colonies feel a bit more unique to the run in taking advantage of what you get, rather than getting the same items and making the same worlds every time.
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Megas

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2021, 03:38:18 PM »

In my last game in v0.9.1a, I raided the core worlds left-and-right for blueprints starting early in the game, and got them all by the end of the game.

This release, the marine threshold and lethality makes blueprint raiding hard to do until late in the game (at least not without Ground Operations).

I do plan to raid core worlds left and right for blueprints soon (instead of only supplies, fuel, and drugs), now that I have colonies and more than two million credits.

And I also plan to steal all the items away from the core worlds too.  Just swiped the nanoforge from Asher.
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Chthonic One

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2021, 03:42:20 PM »

In my last game in v0.9.1a, I raided the core worlds left-and-right for blueprints starting early in the game, and got them all by the end of the game.

This release, the marine threshold and lethality makes blueprint raiding hard to do until late in the game (at least not without Ground Operations).

I do plan to raid core worlds left and right for blueprints soon (instead of only supplies, fuel, and drugs), now that I have colonies and more than two million credits.

And I also plan to steal all the items away from the core worlds too.  Just swiped the nanoforge from Asher.
A streamer I was watching seemed to have an issue where he stopped getting blueprints entirely from them, despite not having their ships. I wish you luck that you don't encounter that issue.
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robepriority

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2021, 05:10:01 PM »

This update introduces intel from contacts and even bars that point to the blueprint locations.

Spoiler
The colony items on the other hand, really do need to be more localized within specific types of derelicts,  because the item pool for those basically exploded. I have 4 nanoforges and 6 sync-cores and no lamps.
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 05:18:25 PM by robepriority »
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Chthonic One

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2021, 05:17:05 PM »

This update introduces intel from contacts and even bars that point to the blueprint locations.

Quote
The colony items on the other hand, really do need to be more localized within specific types of derelicts,  because the item pool for those basically exploded. I have 4 nanoforges and 6 sync-cores and no lamps.
I do wish that they would tell you whether or not you KNOW a blueprint when you get a historian or other mission, rather than make you reject it, go out to your list, find it if possible, and then go back and accept it if you don't have it. You know, give us at least that much quality of life.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2021, 05:39:37 PM »

This update introduces intel from contacts and even bars that point to the blueprint locations.

Quote
The colony items on the other hand, really do need to be more localized within specific types of derelicts,  because the item pool for those basically exploded. I have 4 nanoforges and 6 sync-cores and no lamps.
I do wish that they would tell you whether or not you KNOW a blueprint when you get a historian or other mission, rather than make you reject it, go out to your list, find it if possible, and then go back and accept it if you don't have it. You know, give us at least that much quality of life.
Or better yet: Have them only offer ones you DON'T know
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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2021, 05:40:47 PM »

I don't particularly have an issue with BP drop rates, simply because you don't always have the choice of the same exact ships near the end. You don't always have the ships you like using by the end, so you have to use other things. It would also be pointless to raid factions for blueprints if you can just find every single one in the wild. Also the random people in the dockside bar that can net you some blueprints is also rather helpful.

However, I do have a bit of a gripe with the items. I have found a single coronal tap, a ton of synchrotron cores, and really not much else except maybe 4 things for the other industries. I don't even know what goes on heavy batteries or patrol HQ. The only reason I know there is an item for it is because there's an option. I have cleaned out my entire sector of the things immediately available without tech-mining every ruins I found. Not really an issue though, just a mild complaint of sorts. Seeing as it doesn't make or break a colony to have or not have those things.
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wei270

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Re: What are everyone's thoughts about exploration loot density?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2021, 05:49:06 PM »

it is fine, i do like the fact that you can't get everything with exploration any more, it is only one aspect of the game, there is trading, raiding, and scavenging to get what you want. it should stay that way.

if you really just want that sweet sweet pristine Nano forge maybe Alex can put in a quest that reward you one so that everyone has that 1 pristine nano for certain and everything else is up to RNG
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