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[SCC]

Phase ships should take soft flux damage from being shot at, even in phase. I can't hurt you, but you can't hurt me either. It shouldn't be possible to pull the ship out of phase with such soft flux, though.
Doom's mines should be impossible to set off by anything but its timer. Not ship collisions, not shield collisions, not fighter collisions, nothing but the timer.

[intrinsic_parity]

I think there should be explicitly anti-phase weapons. Like depth charge type bombs/missiles that only do damage in phase space. Maybe anti-phase guns that build soft flux while phased could be another idea, but I don't think every gun should do that.

I'm not sure about the doom mine thing though. It being good against fighters is kinda a huge part of the ships identity, and that change would completely ruin that aspect of the ship. I think just basic nerfs to the recharge rate, and cooldown of the system would be better for reigning in the doom. Maybe a short delay between contact and detonation could work too.

[Megas]

Doom was fine last release.  If it is overpowered, it is because of the new skills.

If weapons generally did soft flux to phase, I want phase ships to shoot while phased.  Do not need to turn phase into inferior fortress shield.

[Amoebka]

Doom wasn't fine in the last release either. But yes, the skills removing phase cloak cooldown and doubling your speed make it even more of a walk in the park. Now you can't even make a mistake and uncloak at a bad moment, and you don't have to plan your venting as far ahead either.

Phasing is just a fundamentaly unfair ability - it's uninteractive. You don't have to care about what the enemy can do, how much damage their weapons do, what damage type they are, etc. You dodge everything for the same flux cost.

[Anvel]

That's why in the new run I don't use phase/high tech ships, they smell like cheating.

[TuxedoCatfish]

I love the Doom to pieces but it is absolutely overpowered lol. Phasing is incredibly strong to begin with, and then the Doom has that, generous fitting stats, an incredibly flexible and well-positioned set of hardpoints, and a ship system that is good on its own merits and then also bamboozles the AI into turning its shields in the wrong direction.

With skill and timing most ships are deadly in player hands, but the Doom stands out in particular as being able to solo entire endgame fleets effortlessly and in an extremely repetitive manner -- drop mines, phase out, shoot them behind the shields if they have omnis or poor coverage or just overload them otherwise, phase in, if they didn't die in one volley repeat.

I really like the playstyle that phase ships represent -- this sort of submarine analogue, these silent deadly killers that can flit behind enemy lines and strike to devastating effect. I wouldn't want anything to change that feeling. But right now, they're more like World War I submarines -- there's just no answer to them, which is bad both for balance and also in the sense that after the initial thrill of how powerful they are wears off, flying one becomes rote and boring.

Even worse, the only real specialized counter to phase ships -- the Harbingers's ship system, which can drag them into normal space -- is on a phase ship itself.

I think it's okay for phase ships to continue to be relatively invulnerable when phased out, but the cooldown for returning to phase should be significantly longer, and there should be some way to force ships out of phase pro-actively instead of just kind of stalking them until flux does it naturally. I wouldn't want every ship to be able to do what the Harbinger can do -- it's too binary, going instantly from total invulnerability to "overloaded and helpless" -- but some way to force them to take on additional (soft?) flux when they're hanging out right next to you, like someone suggested earlier, might be good.

[Anvel]

I love the Doom to pieces but it is absolutely overpowered lol. Phasing is incredibly strong to begin with, and then the Doom has that, generous fitting stats, an incredibly flexible and well-positioned set of hardpoints, and a ship system that is good on its own merits and then also bamboozles the AI into turning its shields in the wrong direction.

With skill and timing most ships are deadly in player hands, but the Doom stands out in particular as being able to solo entire endgame fleets effortlessly and in an extremely repetitive manner -- drop mines, phase out, shoot them behind the shields if they have omnis or poor coverage or just overload them otherwise, phase in, if they didn't die in one volley repeat.

I really like the playstyle that phase ships represent -- this sort of submarine analogue, these silent deadly killers that can flit behind enemy lines and strike to devastating effect. I wouldn't want anything to change that feeling. But right now, they're more like World War I submarines -- there's just no answer to them, which is bad both for balance and also in the sense that after the initial thrill of how powerful they are wears off, flying one becomes rote and boring.

Even worse, the only real specialized counter to phase ships -- the Harbingers's ship system, which can drag them into normal space -- is on a phase ship itself.

I think it's okay for phase ships to continue to be relatively invulnerable when phased out, but the cooldown for returning to phase should be significantly longer, and there should be some way to force ships out of phase pro-actively instead of just kind of stalking them until flux does it naturally. I wouldn't want every ship to be able to do what the Harbinger can do -- it's too binary, going instantly from total invulnerability to "overloaded and helpless" -- but some way to force them to take on additional (soft?) flux when they're hanging out right next to you, like someone suggested earlier, might be good.

Doom shouldn't be able to place mines behind targets that's first, Phase mastery shouldn't give a speed bonus at least not that significant.

[IonDragonX]

I'd like to see those phase ship nacelles become actual combat objects. If you can disable one or overload it, it disables the phase ability. It would make EMP weapons a more effective against them.

[SCC]

Do not need to turn phase into inferior fortress shield.

I would rather have inferior fortress shield than what we have now.

I'd like to see those phase ship nacelles become actual combat objects.

This sounds promising, though.

[Arakasi]

I feel like a lot of phase ships would be a lot worse without their insanely strong ship systems, the Doom's mines, the Harbringer's system interrupts. The give and take of it is supposed to be their combat readiness from what I can tell, but that has proven to be a rather blunt balancing tool, and with the skills the way they are currently, an inept one. Still though, it would be nice to have some way to interact with them (be it the ability to disable their phase coils somehow, or increase their flux while phased) that does not include specialised equipment - the idea of having to bring special weapons to deal with phase ships sounds like a logistics nightmare this game should never encourage.

[Megas]

Doom was awful when it had Fast Missile Racks and when phase had no time shift.  (No time shift and no cooldown worked great on the frigates; they were ghost assault tanks the AI could use.)  Then in earlier 0.9 releases Doom hits like a capital, while having much less PPT and durability (if it took hits).  It was great as a 35 DP ship that is almost as costly as a capital.  If I pay that much, it better perform like a capital, and it delivered as advertised.  Even better, the AI could use it competently, unlike other phase ships at the time.

[Dread Pirate Robots]

 

Doom was awful when it had Fast Missile Racks and when phase had no time shift.  (No time shift and no cooldown worked great on the frigates; they were ghost assault tanks the AI could use.)  Then in earlier 0.9 releases Doom hits like a capital, while having much less PPT and durability (if it took hits).  It was great as a 35 DP ship that is almost as costly as a capital.  If I pay that much, it better perform like a capital, and it delivered as advertised.  Even better, the AI could use it competently, unlike other phase ships at the time.

I agree, I thought the doom was trash right up until the mine system. It was way too slow and nowhere near worth its cost. I'm pretty sure everyone else did too which is why it kept getting buffed. Now I think it's fantastic. I actually never played a game where I piloted it in 0.9, but it was my favorite ship to see in an enemy fleet, it was pretty much the only ship where I knew I'd have to actually pay attention and play carefully.

In my first game in 0.95, I tried a phase ship only run (which I sort of abandoned, but still used phase ships), and spent a lot of time piloting the doom. Now I think it is one of the most fun ships both to fight against and to pilot. It's also probably the most offensively powerful ship in game, and particularly monstrous in the player's hands. I just don't see where this is a problem. Something has to be the strongest ship in the game, and I think its much better for it to be a fun, active and offensive ship like the doom over a boring beam boat like the paragon. Or do we need to nerf the paragon and radiant as well?

I thought it was a significant boost to the game when the doom was buffed and the remnant was added. The doom and the radiant are only two ships in the game* that, when I see them in the enemy fleet, I know I have to be play a little more carefully. Most of the combat in this game, at least once you've played it a bit, is just mindlessly smashing fleets that have no chance at scratching you. If the doom or radiant got nerfed, how would it make the game better to have it so I can steamroll even more enemy fleets without needing to pay attention? If anything the game needs more ships like the doom, not fewer.

*

Spoiler

other than the special spoiler ships that we'll be seeing more of in the future - and which are very fun to fight in my opinion

[close]

[Megas]

I thought it was a significant boost to the game when the doom was buffed and the remnant was added. The doom and the radiant are only two ships in the game* that, when I see them in the enemy fleet, I know I have to be play a little more carefully. Most of the combat in this game, at least once you've played it a bit, is just mindlessly smashing fleets that have no chance at scratching you. If the doom or radiant got nerfed, how would it make the game better to have it so I can steamroll even more enemy fleets without needing to pay attention? If anything the game needs more ships like the doom, not fewer.

Paragon with old 2500 or more range Tachyon Lances felt like an unusual ship too.  Now, ship needs Targeting Supercomputer to approach ranges like that with the lance.