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Author Topic: How to properly order the AI?  (Read 1090 times)

Immahnoob

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How to properly order the AI?
« on: April 07, 2021, 02:52:07 AM »

Fighting a Nexus for example is pain because the AI doesn't seem to understand the idea of "cover those that have too much flux" like I do, and they don't really cover me when I'm the one in trouble even with Escort.
Escort actually seems to make them more prone to just tanking all the time, meaning they get in the way.
I'm pretty sure people have already found the best ways to get around and know how to use commands, so instead of making a "Commands suck/AI suck" thread, I'd rather ask the community to see if you know better ways to solve this issue, maybe through waypoints or specific commands?

I mean, it's fine, I eventually destroy the Nexus with few losses, but those losses could have just been avoided. Sometimes I think the enemy AI is just better at grasping the situation than my AI. I'd often see enemy AIs cover for the heavy fluxed ship while it retreats behind to vent. Mine don't seem to want to do that, instead they'd rather tank vent and leave me or any other ship out in the open like they don't give a ***.
Is it also based on composition maybe?
I use Eagles, Champions, Onslaughts, Legions and Sunders.
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TaLaR

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2021, 03:03:31 AM »

Well, how do you save a threatened allied ship? By killing or at least heavily pressuring the offender, or in some cases by body-blocking shots intended for the victim.

I'm not sure AI tries to do it (on purpose rather than accidentally), and even if it does, task is not that simple. A ship needs to be powerful/shielded enough and be in position to reach where it needs to be fast enough. AI also needs to figure this out in advance, while there is still enough time to save the victim.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 03:05:37 AM by TaLaR »
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Immahnoob

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2021, 04:34:32 AM »

Well, how do you save a threatened allied ship? By killing or at least heavily pressuring the offender, or in some cases by body-blocking shots intended for the victim.

I'm not sure AI tries to do it (on purpose rather than accidentally), and even if it does, task is not that simple. A ship needs to be powerful/shielded enough and be in position to reach where it needs to be fast enough. AI also needs to figure this out in advance, while there is still enough time to save the victim.
I can't body block that many shots (I'm not even that wide), I can't kill a Nexus that fast and there's a limit to how much you can pressure one as well.
Honestly though, this wouldn't be hard to implement if that's what you mean, I'd say it's best if we don't go into that direction and just talk about how we can at least try and use what we have to make something similar to what I want.
Most of the times, you or they are not going to die in the time you're overloaded (if that ever happens) or while you're venting, but the AI has very poor survival skills if their hull goes down too much.
I can use an Onslaught well enough to not die on a Nexus, but I'm sacrificing a lot of my hull for that and the AI isn't picking up the slack enough either. It's annoying as well if my ships get disabled (and hopefully not destroyed) for what is basically having poor co-op players.

I'm trying too hard for what should be something very simple.
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Vinyl Dash

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 07:16:09 AM »

Well, how do you save a threatened allied ship? By killing or at least heavily pressuring the offender, or in some cases by body-blocking shots intended for the victim.

I'm not sure AI tries to do it (on purpose rather than accidentally), and even if it does, task is not that simple. A ship needs to be powerful/shielded enough and be in position to reach where it needs to be fast enough. AI also needs to figure this out in advance, while there is still enough time to save the victim.
I can't body block that many shots (I'm not even that wide), I can't kill a Nexus that fast and there's a limit to how much you can pressure one as well.

I think you missed the point there.

Those are the things that can be called "covering an ally", and as you've explained, even you, a human player, can't do them too well against a Nexus. What are you expecting the AI to do?
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Immahnoob

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2021, 07:39:39 AM »

Well, how do you save a threatened allied ship? By killing or at least heavily pressuring the offender, or in some cases by body-blocking shots intended for the victim.

I'm not sure AI tries to do it (on purpose rather than accidentally), and even if it does, task is not that simple. A ship needs to be powerful/shielded enough and be in position to reach where it needs to be fast enough. AI also needs to figure this out in advance, while there is still enough time to save the victim.
I can't body block that many shots (I'm not even that wide), I can't kill a Nexus that fast and there's a limit to how much you can pressure one as well.

I think you missed the point there.

Those are the things that can be called "covering an ally", and as you've explained, even you, a human player, can't do them too well against a Nexus. What are you expecting the AI to do?
No, it's just that the point is not good.
I can't do them well because I'm limited by my equipment, which is fine, but if I'm going to be limited that way, allow me a tactical approach then, which isn't really possible with the current AI, unless the community knows how to use the commands in a way that I don't.
You're talking as if the AI is somehow at its capacity code wise and there's no possible way that it's just pure, unfiltered garbage.
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robepriority

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2021, 07:46:34 AM »

I mean, I genuinely don't know how to deal with a nexus. What would be a good way to cover against that gun platform?

Vinyl Dash

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2021, 07:48:08 AM »

Cool. So, again, what do you want the AI to do? Magically boost their damage so they can force the Nexus to flux out? Body block and die? Have every ship rush in recklessly the moment any ship is in danger in a mad rush to save them?
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Immahnoob

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Re: How to properly order the AI?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2021, 08:02:26 AM »

Cool. So, again, what do you want the AI to do? Magically boost their damage so they can force the Nexus to flux out? Body block and die? Have every ship rush in recklessly the moment any ship is in danger in a mad rush to save them?
I'm not sure if you just don't understand what I'm trying to say or you're doing this on purpose. Maybe try reading the post you've replied to previously in its entirety.
I mean, I genuinely don't know how to deal with a nexus. What would be a good way to cover against that gun platform?
I've only killed a single Nexus since the patch, I just tank with my Onslaught (haven't yet picked up a Paragon) and get rid of what are the worst shield busters like the Squalls first. When I notice I'm too heavy on flux, I walk backwards towards the nearest carrier/other capital (most likely a Champion or Legion for me) and vent, then go back in there.
If that's not possible, I vent when there's either a ton of flux on the platform or when I'm at an angle where it's either kinetic damage or just not much damage coming my way.

Eventually when one side falls, you can't really be hit by much, and you can even snipe the platforms behind their shields if you want to cheese.
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