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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: The Pilgrim's Path (07/19/22)

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Author Topic: Beam weapons need a buff  (Read 6695 times)

Thaago

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2021, 08:15:03 PM »

Without how good frigates are this version, I think I'm going to get myself an Eagle to front for my carrier fleet and pop them. 3 Gravs + 3 Tacs with ITU and Gunnery is 1550 range without advanced optics, enough to get nearly the whole 30% ranged specialization bonus. Along with L1L at 5% and another 5% for CR, thats looking like 825*1.35 =~1100 soft flux shield pressure at very high accuracy. Even shield tanks down under .5 won't like that pointed at them.
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Rauschkind

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2021, 08:17:02 PM »

pft. of course they work if you abuse the eagle hull!

*runs*

serious:
i eagle is one of my favorite hulls. beefy and that manouver thrusters even give a speed bonus. base speed is not THAT bad neither.
but that brings me to my point: isnt this hull much better suited to safety override it?
maybe the champion was better for that, you can fit 4 tac, 2 medium beams, a large one AND it gets high energy focuss
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 08:23:14 PM by Rauschkind »
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Maethendias

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2021, 01:09:13 AM »

pft. of course they work if you abuse the eagle hull!

*runs*

serious:
i eagle is one of my favorite hulls. beefy and that manouver thrusters even give a speed bonus. base speed is not THAT bad neither.
but that brings me to my point: isnt this hull much better suited to safety override it?
maybe the champion was better for that, you can fit 4 tac, 2 medium beams, a large one AND it gets high energy focuss

i personally only so high tech ships, because that mod synergizes so well with the philosophy of high tech, shrikes, auroras, even apogees become beasts with so, and they have all "flux dependent" defences, like speed or efficient shields

i personally dont like to use so on other ships, because it takes away what THOSE ships could do, prime example eagle

eagle is an arty plattform in my eyes... so would turn it into a worse aurora
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ninjaelk

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2021, 10:53:06 AM »

i personally only so high tech ships, because that mod synergizes so well with the philosophy of high tech, shrikes, auroras, even apogees become beasts with so, and they have all "flux dependent" defences, like speed or efficient shields

i personally dont like to use so on other ships, because it takes away what THOSE ships could do, prime example eagle

eagle is an arty plattform in my eyes... so would turn it into a worse aurora

Assuming it's a worse Aurora at that point doesn't mean that's not still a more effective build for the Eagle. Some ships are just worse than others at their best role, and some roles that certain ships are good at just aren't roles worth using. That being said, for certain fleet compositions, 22 deploy cost on an SO Eagle could easily make it a much better pick over an SO Aurora which costs 30.
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cerberusti

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2021, 12:39:08 PM »

Again, beams are supposed to be support weapons, not main damage weapons. Other some fee exceptions like the tachyon Lance, beams are mainly used to support main damage weapons at low flux cost. I have an eagle with 2 gravitons and 1 ion beam and they do their job pretty well as a long range pressure weapon
If they cost more than they do AFTER you consider the effect of spending that same OP on vents, they are worse than useless: they hurt you more than they hurt the enemy.  Remember that.  The OP matters as part of their flux cost, because it's vents you won't have.  If you're filling slots with beams theres absolutely no way you are going to max out vents/caps, even without including the flux hullmods.
If you plan to win on flux, you have minimal shield damage to you, full vents, a flux distributor in most cases, and still need to get flux down a bit so that you are not at a deficit with the shields up and most guns firing.  Gravitons are amazing in that context.

I leave slots empty if I cannot support them as well.  That is a better idea than a gun you cannot afford to fire much.

Flux efficiency is very important in a weapon to be fired at targets with shields, although it does not matter as much for your anti armor weapons, so long as they are under manual control.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 12:42:40 PM by cerberusti »
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Igncom1

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2021, 12:48:15 PM »

I pair my gravitons with my heavy blasters on my tempests.

They utterly slay anything even near their weight class.

Sunders too are great with supporting gravitons with a high intensity laser or tachyon doom ray.

Somebodies gotta play support for energy weapons, and ion cannons just don't cut it!
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KDR_11k

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2021, 01:48:00 PM »

Maybe they could be changed to do a certain percentage of their damage as hard flux, perhaps more the closer you are.

The HIL is notable for essentially forcing the target to keep its shields up, other beams don't do that so well since you can tank something like a battery of tac lasers on your armor with barely a scratch and gravitons of course don't do much there either. So HIL ensures that the target won't drop its shields for a kinetic damage burst. If other beams had a similar "damage to armor/hull but useless against shields" nature they'd be able to do the same, serve to keep the shields targetable for your kinetic volleys.

I can understand tac lasers being pretty weak, they're small weapons with 1000 range with a low OP cost after all. They're upgraded PD lasers for people who use the PDAI hull mod. Gravitons seem more designed around giving you something with negligible flux drain you can throw into medium slots but they're coming across more as decorative than useful these days, especially with all the defensive bonuses ships have from skills now. The most you can see them doing is when some Hound flies near them for a minute and you can sloooooooooowly see its health go down. Even whole batteries of graviton beams won't make anyone care since you pretty much need multiple ships focusing their gravitons on a single target to make it really notice.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2021, 02:12:57 PM »

In my skill thread I suggested making ranged specialization buff beams in some way (like bonus damage or doubled effect), that could be an interesting way to give them a little help.
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RemnantAI

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2021, 02:10:55 PM »

Even 25% hard flux would probably be worth it. I'd even pay a reasonable amount for a hull mod with a percentage that didn't eat at the rain.

50% Range 100% Hard Flux, or 100% Range 0% Hard Flux, are both rough options.
The range restrictions on High Scatter basically shoehorn you into a Safety Overrides build.
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Flare

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2021, 08:34:55 PM »

Wasn't the last tournament won by someone going mass beams? A complete clean sweep winning all 9 fights + the fact that the fleet was fighting modded factions as well.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 10:04:42 PM by Flare »
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ChaseBears

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2021, 08:59:06 PM »

just wanna note in case people didn't know but graviton beams are weirdly good against missiles because they will deflect even reapers wildly off course

The points made about how the proliferation of highly efficient shields hurts gravitons disproportionately are good, but I'll note that support builds are *not* about fair fights.  A support ship is all about ganging up on people, so even if you are losing the flux war you can still win the actual war with a pressure weapon.  Combine gravitons with ion beams for extra hilarity.
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