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Author Topic: Beam weapons need a buff  (Read 4248 times)

Immahnoob

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2021, 06:51:21 AM »

Use High Scatter Amplifier.

Problem solved.
With the range reduction, it turns them into worse IR Pulse Lasers that cost more OP.  Just get IR Pulse Lasers instead.
Not with Advanced Optics and ITU they don't. The flux cost is lower, the range is still higher and they either do more damage to shields or do the same damage to hull.
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Dex

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2021, 07:44:51 AM »

Just to chuck in my 'too sense'. Beams are fine for the reasons already mentioned. They are pressure weapons.
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Grievous69

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2021, 07:47:34 AM »

Use High Scatter Amplifier.

Problem solved.
With the range reduction, it turns them into worse IR Pulse Lasers that cost more OP.  Just get IR Pulse Lasers instead.
Not with Advanced Optics and ITU they don't. The flux cost is lower, the range is still higher and they either do more damage to shields or do the same damage to hull.
You forgot the part where you spent a half of the OPs on hullmods just to make beams wacky and quirky.
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Immahnoob

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2021, 07:50:47 AM »

Use High Scatter Amplifier.

Problem solved.
With the range reduction, it turns them into worse IR Pulse Lasers that cost more OP.  Just get IR Pulse Lasers instead.
Not with Advanced Optics and ITU they don't. The flux cost is lower, the range is still higher and they either do more damage to shields or do the same damage to hull.
You forgot the part where you spent a half of the OPs on hullmods just to make beams wacky and quirky.
I forgot the part where you wouldn't get those hull mods in the first place.
The only hull mod that is "extra" is High Scatter Amplifier.
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Grievous69

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2021, 07:58:26 AM »

Yeah you're right, Advanced Optics is a must on every midline and high tech ship.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2021, 03:07:13 PM »

Beams have long range and low flux cost. They kinda have to be weak or enough beams on a fleet would turn them into a death wall that no frigate or fighter can cross since you're not gonna dodge them. The 1000 range ones will hit you before any serious weapons on a smaller ship are in range.
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sotanaht

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2021, 03:33:19 PM »

Beams have long range and low flux cost. They kinda have to be weak or enough beams on a fleet would turn them into a death wall that no frigate or fighter can cross since you're not gonna dodge them. The 1000 range ones will hit you before any serious weapons on a smaller ship are in range.
A massed fleet should be a death wall.  No frigate or fighter should be able to get in between 20 ships all bunched up and waiting for it.  And that's exactly true with non-beam weapons.  As it is, if you are piloting a frigate and see the enemy fleet is beam heavy, you know that it's SAFER to try to get between them than it would if they didn't use beams.

I've been testing with doubled beams and tripled gravitons in my own game and frigates still get through remnant fleets, so it's probably still not enough.
Use High Scatter Amplifier.

Problem solved.
With the range reduction, it turns them into worse IR Pulse Lasers that cost more OP.  Just get IR Pulse Lasers instead.
Not with Advanced Optics and ITU they don't. The flux cost is lower, the range is still higher and they either do more damage to shields or do the same damage to hull.
Way less damage to shields and hull.  300dps is the low-end for medium weapons.  Even small weapons usually do more than the 100 that the graviton does.

Use High Scatter Amplifier.

Problem solved.
With the range reduction, it turns them into worse IR Pulse Lasers that cost more OP.  Just get IR Pulse Lasers instead.
Not with Advanced Optics and ITU they don't. The flux cost is lower, the range is still higher and they either do more damage to shields or do the same damage to hull.
You forgot the part where you spent a half of the OPs on hullmods just to make beams wacky and quirky.
I forgot the part where you wouldn't get those hull mods in the first place.
The only hull mod that is "extra" is High Scatter Amplifier.
You wouldn't get Advanced Optics either, if you aren't using beams, because beams are too weak to be worth the OP.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2021, 03:45:54 PM »

I've been running around with Wolfpack Tempests equipped with Hvy Blaster and Scatter Amped Gravitons and the gravitons have been doing a pretty good job of providing shield suppression at a flux cost offsetting the Hvy Blaster's hunger. Especially with other Tempests hanging around ganging up on a single target. Don't forget that Gravitons are Kinetic damage and so in this case will do 200 hard flux DPS on shields for a very minor 75 f/s.

2 Pulse lasers can do 600 DPS on shields at 1 to 1 flux to damage but has issues against punching through heavy armor common with bounties, and 1 Hvy blaster with a pulse laser can do 800 DPS but will be very flux hungry to a tempest lowering its sustainability.
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sotanaht

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2021, 04:51:32 PM »

I've been running around with Wolfpack Tempests equipped with Hvy Blaster and Scatter Amped Gravitons and the gravitons have been doing a pretty good job of providing shield suppression at a flux cost offsetting the Hvy Blaster's hunger. Especially with other Tempests hanging around ganging up on a single target. Don't forget that Gravitons are Kinetic damage and so in this case will do 200 hard flux DPS on shields for a very minor 75 f/s.

2 Pulse lasers can do 600 DPS on shields at 1 to 1 flux to damage but has issues against punching through heavy armor common with bounties, and 1 Hvy blaster with a pulse laser can do 800 DPS but will be very flux hungry to a tempest lowering its sustainability.
You don't need or want sustainability with fast frigates.  The longer you are in the more danger to you.  Better to dump your load fast and get out.  2 heavy blasters works best for that (maybe even 2 mining blasters).  The AI actually does that anyway, they never stay close to the enemy for long.
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Voyager I

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2021, 08:11:21 PM »

Dual Phases is my go-to for Tempests.  Zip in, pop F, unload a pile of damage, and zip back out to cool off while the lances cycle.  Advanced Optics can give them the extra poke range to stay relevant in larger fights where the battlespace becomes more hostile to small ships, and jumping Phase Lances from 600 > 800 range is way more relevant than any other range bonus you can get on a frigate hullmod.

The sheer volume of soft flux is enough to overwhelm anything else in their weight class, even REDACTED frigates.
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Thaago

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2021, 08:25:40 PM »

... I've got a lasher with 1 railgun and 2 (!!!) light mortars! Does that count as high performance? :D
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2021, 08:30:30 PM »

Quote
High Scatter Amplifier
Greatness of this mod is compared only to Shield Shunt. You not only make your ship worse, but also need to pay OP for that.
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sotanaht

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2021, 03:07:36 AM »

Dual Phases is my go-to for Tempests.  Zip in, pop F, unload a pile of damage, and zip back out to cool off while the lances cycle.  Advanced Optics can give them the extra poke range to stay relevant in larger fights where the battlespace becomes more hostile to small ships, and jumping Phase Lances from 600 > 800 range is way more relevant than any other range bonus you can get on a frigate hullmod.

The sheer volume of soft flux is enough to overwhelm anything else in their weight class, even REDACTED frigates.
I used to use Phase Lances with Hyperions last patch.  If you can get them on an exposed target they are pretty good, although blowing through shields isn't usually possible.  Damage on Phase Lance is OK but its usage is extremely niche, and probably obsolete now.  I figure boosting it to the same 1000 unit range as every other offensive beam would probably be sufficient as a buff, but even that is less absolutely essential than buffing gravitons.
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Euripides

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2021, 05:27:36 AM »

I just don't use beams for anything, they're less effective than any other weapon I could be using in their place.

Exceptions are the classic phase lance, tachyon, etc.
And also Scy and Diable's EMP beams (diable's could do with a small buff though) which I found nice to use on frigates - vapors in particular with the hacking commlink. They deal very small damage through the shield and sometimes put a module offline through the shield. That's the kind of utility beams need if they're gonna be worth bothering with.

So far the only thing I found beams useful for was super long range anti-fighter work using the point defense hullmod. My conclusion is that, yes beams can be viable, but I can also just use something even more viable instead.
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Maethendias

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Re: Beam weapons need a buff
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2021, 12:45:31 PM »

the problem with beams is the way their dps works...


cause it doesnt actually do as much dps as is stated (talking about BEAMS here, not pulse beams (phase/tachyon))

even graviton beams, meant to pressure shields, dont really do anything against shields, despite having a 200% bonus against shields, and doing 100 dps... which would be around... 200 or 300 dps? i dont know how damage is calculated

but i DO know that 2 of them still do way less shield damage than even ion cannons... and they only do 50 dps without shield bonus... (im talking straight flux here, irrelevant if its soft or hard flux)

like, beam weapons really dont feel like they do the damage that they tell you they do on paper.... especially tacticals, 75 dps? per laser? AS IF

it really seems because of the nature of venting beam weapons just cant really deliver their dps effectively, hell, even WITHOUT shields they horribly underperform (with the exception of the intense laser, it is the only beam weapon that acutally has noticable impact on shields ironically considering its heavy shield damage debuff)

the only way to make beams "work" rn is to spam them... and at that point why not spam energy projectile weapons with hard flux and do a way better job with way less effort (not to mention focusfiring with beam spam is harder than youd think in actual battles... allies getting in the way and all)

hell, beams even suck at "suppressing" enemies... cause having enemies run away to the edges of the map to get out of your laser reach just so they can vent is... not what you want...


what you ACTUALLY want is for enemy ships to vent in reach of your weapons, not for the enemy to travel to the end of the galaxy to do it, cause your laser always shot their shields... so ye, even the role people think they are good for isnt a good thing
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