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Author Topic: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?  (Read 4179 times)

Bob69Joe

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Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« on: April 05, 2021, 01:35:16 PM »

I've been doing a single dram run for like years now, doing spy sat missions, drop offs, some light recreational substance trade, but mostly explorations.

I'm trying to jank the Hegemony at Jangala, and my sensor profile is 158, using insulated engines and dark mode, but I might have to jsut hang out in the asteroid belt nearby for a week to get the spy thingie in place. The patrols are pretty heavy and they seem to locate me immediately when my sensor profile is at the default 158.
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I'm almost always peeling away at light speed right after I drop the satellite, so if the faction doesn't think to look for something suspicious then, then it would just be simple to make the missions even easier by blasting into the orbit as quick as you can.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:44:23 PM by Bob69Joe »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2021, 01:51:03 PM »

Phase ships provide a negative value to the base 300 sensor profile.  For example, My Odyssey plus 6 Revenant phase tenders has a sensor profile of 69 when going dark (with sensor skill).  Adding a phase frigate or three would likely reduce your sensor profile a bit.  A single Doom would have more an effect (-90 vs -30 starting) (bigger phase ships have larger effects, hence my use of cruiser tier phase ships).

I believe Alex is aware patrols are a bit of an issue right now, at least around comm relays for example.  I think the he said something about making it easier to pull the patrols off by showing up on their sensors, then dropping back to low sensor profile and looping around them to the target while they are off searching in the wrong area.
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Wyvern

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2021, 01:52:37 PM »

I mean, technically, if you pile enough phase ships in your fleet and nothing else, you can get your sensor profile down to zero.  But you need about eight phase cruisers for that, and things can still detect you at noticeable ranges.

Also, despite the zero there, multiplicative bonuses like being in an asteroid belt, going dark, etc., will still reduce the range you can be detected at.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Bob69Joe

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2021, 06:31:56 PM »

All very cool. Thanks folks. I've been running these star ships conservatively so far. I run the game at less than ideal speed, so I tend to explore, then buy cheap storage to change up fleet composition depending on what contracts I need to complete. I'll definitely try some scrapyard pirate phasers. Many thanks!
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KDR_11k

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2021, 10:50:08 PM »

I don't remember how I got my hands on two Revenants but they allowed me to have a near invisible fleet for a while. They're cruiser sized and transport cargo and fuel in good amounts, great for exploration without being spotted or other types of smuggling. Plus they're even decently capable of fleeing from a battle.
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GenericGoose

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2021, 02:55:35 AM »

I tried a fleet of about 7 phase freighters and 3 crew transports with all the relevant skills. It's not really viable. First, the reduction from phase has diminishing returns and is barely enough to cover the base 300 visibility. Second, ai fleets can still have powerful sensors. Third, if the system has sensor structure thing, thats up to 700 more detection. I've not tested this, but destroying or capturing it seems to invariably make the faction hostile and they always know it was you, despite being unable to figure it out when you nuke and raid their planets... Fourth, planets can have like 4 fleets oribiting them, spamming sensor burst. The "inactive" fleets that do nothing, like traders loading/unloading still detect you, which is really annoying. Finally, it seems raiding a planet attracts most of the patrols to it, so it can be helpful sometimes to do a light raid to draw them away. Asteroids and such aren't very helpful, very few planets have those nearby. You can draw in a small patrol and kill it to create a debris field to hide in. The fields don't seem to follow the same oribt though, if they move at all, so you have a limited amount of time to make use of it before the objective moves away.
I was excited for stealth fleet, but it's not as effective as I expected it to be, for how specialized and niche it is.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:58:40 AM by GenericGoose »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2021, 08:19:12 AM »

I think if the sensor relay is makeshift, it's only a small penalty for breaking it, but if it's domain-era, you go insta-hostile with the faction. Once sensor relays are offline, you can almost always sneak in with a phase fleet. I did that when I was training marines to raid for a pristine nano-forge.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2021, 02:52:49 PM »

It's not supposed to be easy after all, if you need to get rid of sensor coverage then maybe waiting for a pirate raid to steal the relay could help. Sure, that's not commonplace enough for smuggling but when you're raiding for a Pristine Nanoforge then surely waiting for the right opportunity would be warranted?
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Locklave

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2021, 03:00:25 PM »

Also, despite the zero there, multiplicative bonuses like being in an asteroid belt, going dark, etc., will still reduce the range you can be detected at.
Do you know how it's getting numbers above zero in that case, does that mean zero isn't actually zero? Did Alex discover a way to multiply by zero and get more then zero... madness.
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Dex

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2021, 03:02:43 PM »

Also, despite the zero there, multiplicative bonuses like being in an asteroid belt, going dark, etc., will still reduce the range you can be detected at.
Do you know how it's getting numbers above zero in that case, does that mean zero isn't actually zero? Did Alex discover a way to multiply by zero and get more then zero... madness.

Hello, Friend. Before you hurt yourself, the range at which you can be detected is in fact the sensor range of the OPPOSING fleet ADDED to your sensor profile.

SO:

Opposing fleet Sensors : 800

Your sensor profile : 0

Detection range : 800
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Demetrious

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2021, 03:20:25 PM »

Phase ships provide a negative value to the base 300 sensor profile.  For example, My Odyssey plus 6 Revenant phase tenders has a sensor profile of 69 when going dark (with sensor skill).  Adding a phase frigate or three would likely reduce your sensor profile a bit.  A single Doom would have more an effect (-90 vs -30 starting) (bigger phase ships have larger effects, hence my use of cruiser tier phase ships).

I believe Alex is aware patrols are a bit of an issue right now, at least around comm relays for example.  I think the he said something about making it easier to pull the patrols off by showing up on their sensors, then dropping back to low sensor profile and looping around them to the target while they are off searching in the wrong area.

In addition, we now have phase troop transports AND phase tanker/cargo ("tender") ships, which not only benefit from the low sensor profile, but can also just phase out to escape lickety-split if they do get intercepted by a patrol.
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Locklave

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2021, 01:54:22 AM »

Also, despite the zero there, multiplicative bonuses like being in an asteroid belt, going dark, etc., will still reduce the range you can be detected at.
Do you know how it's getting numbers above zero in that case, does that mean zero isn't actually zero? Did Alex discover a way to multiply by zero and get more then zero... madness.

Hello, Friend. Before you hurt yourself, the range at which you can be detected is in fact the sensor range of the OPPOSING fleet ADDED to your sensor profile.

SO:

Opposing fleet Sensors : 800

Your sensor profile : 0

Detection range : 800

You don't even understand my question.

Asteroid fields are changing detection range of a zero profile fleet. Multiplicative bonuses times zero should still be zero. MY question was not "how can anyone detect me?". I was rather specific about that in my post.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:36:04 AM by Locklave »
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Alex

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2021, 07:38:09 AM »

Hello, Friend. Before you hurt yourself, ...

@Dex: that's entirely inappropriate. Please refrain from things that verge into personal attack territory.


Asteroid fields are changing detection range of a zero profile fleet. Multiplicative bonuses times zero should still be zero. MY question was not "how can anyone detect me?". I was rather specific about that in my post.

Ah - I believe the tooltip explains this, but - those multipliers etc apply to the *combined* value. Actually, digging a little bit, with enough phase ships, I think your phase profile can go below zero; 0 appears to be just the minimal display value; let me make it show negative values - doesn't seem to be a good reason not to. I think that's just a sanity check left over from before that was actually possible.
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Dex

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2021, 09:17:20 AM »

@Dex: that's entirely inappropriate. Please refrain from things that verge into personal attack territory.

Ah, i see how that can be misconstrued. My mistake. I wasnt insulting his intelligence, just making a comment on his apparent propensity for flagellation, as had been suggested on another thread here. It was sarcastic.

Mr Lock, you are correct and you are smarter than I.

Edit: Admonished on your 18000th post! proud.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 10:10:59 AM by Dex »
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Alex

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Re: Best way to go sneaky beaky like?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2021, 04:39:28 PM »

@Dex: As you have already been warned several times and do not appear to adjusted your behavior, you've got a temporary ban.
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