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Author Topic: .95a feedback - fuel and supply  (Read 9011 times)

SomethingOrOther

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.95a feedback - fuel and supply
« on: April 03, 2021, 05:53:18 PM »

Supply and fuel usage mechanics have killed my enjoyment of this game. It's also pretty lame that AI just straight up cheats and requires neither. That's the feedback - cya.
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Thaago

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 05:57:34 PM »

Hi there! If you haven't already seen, there are some skills in the industry tree that drastically cut down on supply and fuel usage you could try out. For operating funds, a commission handles early and mid game maintenance/flying about money easily.
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SomethingOrOther

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 06:14:14 PM »

I really appreciate the advice, but none of that's news to me. My experience is basically:

Me: "Hey, that sounds like a cool event over there!"
Game: "3 screen wide hyperspace storm, huge planning requirement, dice rolls, calculations, bunch of planning work...ok now the event has expired."

And like, hey, I get it. That's the design. But I'm done. To me it's like the game is designed to taunt me with cool sounding things that by the time I can actually reach them, it's taken so much tedium and prep that the fun has been completely sapped from the experience. So the design seems fundamentally bad to me. If I could space prep/respec freely like every time I wanted to get to some far away event to travel there, then refit/respec to actually fight that battle, that would make sense. But some things you can't space refit, and space refit absolutely torpedoes supply. It's just no fun to me. I wish you all the best, but this just isn't for me.
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trucane

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 06:33:30 PM »

It's even worse when you realize how garbage most mission rewards are. What is the point of expanding the mission types when it's almost impossible to any mission and make a profit? The only missions that pay good money is the cargo transport ones.

I mean who the *** wants to move 30 light years just to collect a pathetic bounty of 50k credits? That doesn't even cover half of the fuel/supply costs.

I can't believe this patch feels so rushed after having waited like 2 years for it
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Flet

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 06:42:51 PM »

I think the idea is the missions are there to augment your income under the assumption you want to go exploring anyway for the other stuff out there. But yeah, it does kind of kill the appeal of doing those missions for their own sake, and that adds another layer of the tedium in when you now want to wait for a mission where you want to explore, or just ignore the missions entirely.
Doesnt help that you can make tiny super efficient exploration fleets to go snag all the really choice loot then just mark down anything you want to come back and kill later. Kind of kills the whole 'make a grand expedition to the fringes of the sector' angle.
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Thaago

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 06:45:27 PM »

It's even worse when you realize how garbage most mission rewards are. What is the point of expanding the mission types when it's almost impossible to any mission and make a profit? The only missions that pay good money is the cargo transport ones.

I mean who the *** wants to move 30 light years just to collect a pathetic bounty of 50k credits? That doesn't even cover half of the fuel/supply costs.

I can't believe this patch feels so rushed after having waited like 2 years for it

Hmm, well the bounty payouts (except for stations and contact bounties are new) haven't changed this patch and neither have the exploration rewards, but its true its sometimes not profitable to do the far reaching ones. However, a lot of times (not always), you can get a cluster of missions all in the same general map region - going to the intel screen (e then 1 hotkeys iirc) and then clicking on the "new" or "bounties" or "exploration" tabs will give you the current missions that are on offer on the map for finding clusters of them to do. For contacts and story missions, part of the reward of the contract is upping the reputation with the contact (which increases the value of future missions) or advancing the story. Still a good idea to do other missions in the same region though.

I really appreciate the advice, but none of that's news to me. My experience is basically:

Me: "Hey, that sounds like a cool event over there!"
Game: "3 screen wide hyperspace storm, huge planning requirement, dice rolls, calculations, bunch of planning work...ok now the event has expired."

And like, hey, I get it. That's the design. But I'm done. To me it's like the game is designed to taunt me with cool sounding things that by the time I can actually reach them, it's taken so much tedium and prep that the fun has been completely sapped from the experience. So the design seems fundamentally bad to me. If I could space prep/respec freely like every time I wanted to get to some far away event to travel there, then refit/respec to actually fight that battle, that would make sense. But some things you can't space refit, and space refit absolutely torpedoes supply. It's just no fun to me. I wish you all the best, but this just isn't for me.

I'm not quite sure which events you're referring to - are these the popup mission contracts like 'survey this volcanic world' or 'scan this wreck'? Those usually come with 120 day time limits after accepting them (they only stick around for a few days to be accepted usually) which is not forever, but usually enough time to resupply, pick up a few more missions in the general area, and head out. Maybe you could try playing with the smaller sector size? (Needs a new game unfortunately). I know that I don't particularly like playing the mods that increase the sector size because things get too far away and wouldn't like it if those sizes were vanilla.

For things like trade disruptions though I agree with you. Those can be very hit and miss on whether they are still ongoing, and it takes much more time for the player to first find a market for whatever good is in demand (which might be far away) and then get there. To me the trade disruptions are more like "hey, I DO have that in my cargo holds already!" than things I can reliably buy for.
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Alex

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2021, 06:48:30 PM »

(I think for the bar/contact bounties, especially the low-end reward *is* a bit low. Let me raise it a bit, now that I'm thinking about it.)
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sector_terror

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2021, 07:23:40 PM »

(I think for the bar/contact bounties, especially the low-end reward *is* a bit low. Let me raise it a bit, now that I'm thinking about it.)

Following up on this, I dont think the low value targets are a bit low, I think -all- bounty rewards are a bit low. I'll make a bigger thread on this later, but I find the early game to be much more tolorable than how strict later bounties get in terms of making profit. Fuel and supply really aren't the issue here IMO, nor is early game uniquely effected by the lower end pay.
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Alex

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2021, 07:50:14 PM »

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
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Linnis

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2021, 08:12:07 PM »

Actually the early game bounties are worth it because the supply and officer costs for player fleets can be payed for by the bounty.

Dragging a 400dp 8-10 officer group across half of the sector is not worth 300k.
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robepriority

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2021, 09:02:29 PM »

Hmm.. I've been playing on small sector size for every playthrough, how much of a difference is normal sector size?

Voyager I

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2021, 09:13:38 PM »

I really appreciate the advice, but none of that's news to me. My experience is basically:

Me: "Hey, that sounds like a cool event over there!"
Game: "3 screen wide hyperspace storm, huge planning requirement, dice rolls, calculations, bunch of planning work...ok now the event has expired."

And like, hey, I get it. That's the design. But I'm done. To me it's like the game is designed to taunt me with cool sounding things that by the time I can actually reach them, it's taken so much tedium and prep that the fun has been completely sapped from the experience. So the design seems fundamentally bad to me. If I could space prep/respec freely like every time I wanted to get to some far away event to travel there, then refit/respec to actually fight that battle, that would make sense. But some things you can't space refit, and space refit absolutely torpedoes supply. It's just no fun to me. I wish you all the best, but this just isn't for me.

I'm a little confused by what you're talking about with regards to refitting here?  Ships don't have different loadouts for traveling and fighting, so being unable to refit in space shouldn't be an issue that comes up with any sort of regularity.
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Sutopia

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2021, 09:24:09 PM »

I think mission time limit should somewhat scale with distance. For example, 60 days base and +10 per ly.
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Since all my mods have poor reputation, I deem my efforts unworthy thus no more updates will be made.

itchylol

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2021, 09:24:41 PM »

Try the console commands mod: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0

There are commands to remove the need for fuel and supplies: InfiniteFuel and InfiniteSupplies
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Thaago

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Re: .95a feedback - fuel and supply
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2021, 11:22:08 PM »

I think mission time limit should somewhat scale with distance. For example, 60 days base and +10 per ly.

Oh I like that idea a lot! Calculate roughly from the center of the core? Should be easy enough. Though I think the edge of the sector is something like... 30?.. lightyears out so I might tweak the scaling a bit.
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