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Yes

27 (79.4%)

No

7 (20.6%)

Total Members Voted: 34

[TaLaR]

Higher DP cost and nerfed system. Plus overall fighter nerf via much reduced skill effects.

Drover now has problems maintaining replenishment even with officer + expanded decks while using Sparks (which barely die, compared to Talons).
Add any bombers and it's replenishment dives straight to zero.

I don't have L3R to see how much it would have helped, but opportunity cost of taking that skill is too high anyway.

Which leaves Heron and Astral as the only pure carriers worth having (Condor is too vulnerable and easy to pop for any random frigate).

[SCC]

I don't have L3R to see how much it would have helped, but opportunity cost of taking that skill is too high anyway.

Making a ship require a skill to work is a bad idea, anyway. But yeah, I've noticed that Drover just can't keep up . Drover without a system would be slightly overcosted, but this one? Oh man.

[Megas]

I have not paid too much attention, but the OP seems plausible.  I need to pilot one myself and see what happens.

[intrinsic_parity]

I was really struggling to think of a reason to not use a heron with an extra bay and more PPT (plus a good fighter system) for only 5 more DP. I already prefered herons in the late game last patch though, so I'm a bit biased.

[Anvel]

In this patch carriers and fighters got butchered, not only skills nerfed but pd weapons now much more effective with that perk.

[tseikk1]

not just drover - carriers in general got a bit overnerfed IMO.

[Golde]

just putting the new PD perk on the table alone would have solved a lot of the problems with lpc spam in the past.

Drover is definitely better than a Condor by a long shot but then again that's not saying much.

And at the same cost as 3-4 more frigates or another fast cruiser?.. that pits the Drover as the most expensive destroyer to field, second to the phase ships which are inherently one size up in terms of costs.

not just drover - carriers in general got a bit overnerfed IMO.

I have also noticed my non-bomber carriers having a hard time sending out sorties during fights, most of the time they're sitting in the background counting their fighters. Very few times during a fight do I notice my broadsword filled heroin making any kind of substantial impact.

[Daynen]

Yeah, carrier spam has officially been kneecapped from all sides, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Games are a series of choices and now the choice of "just bring tons of drovers" isn't miles ahead of most other choices so we've got to adapt, improvise and overcome.  That being said, it's also entirely possible that Alex will decide to make adjustments now that we're getting our teeth into the new version; playtesting is important and all that...

[Retry]

In 0.95 I prefer Condors over the Drover.  DP-wise you can get 3 Condors for 2 Drovers, 6 wings over 4.  Drover's system doesn't seem to actually improve its combat effectiveness; I've frequently found hostile AI Drovers locked around 30% fighter CR through a combination of system use and fighter attrition shortly after the game begins.

Of course, I prefer Herons over either of those...

[Demetrious]

I'm personally leaning towards "yes," mainly because of the 25% reduction in fighter replacement rate per use. That seems really stiff; I'm not sure if it's worth it to use the system to replace losses than to just wait. Expanded Deck Crew doesn't impact that, does it? But to be fair, I haven't flown Drovers enough myself to really tell.

Other than that, I'm happy with the change. The Condor was completely useless with Drovers in existence for only 2 DP more. 3 extra DP for the Reserve Deployment system also affecting bombers is a trade I'm perfectly happy to make - especially since Condors are so painfully slow that they're mainly useful for bringing fighters - specifically, Thunders, as nothing else has the range for them to keep contributing to the fight once its left their glacial rear ends behind.

Speaking of, the Thunder range nerf hurts more in that regard; if Talons were bumped up to 6000 range too it'd be better, as Thunders are expensive enough that a Condor can't fit them, Recovery Shuttles and Expanded Deck Crew and still fit anything else. And given that fighters have overall been brought back to reality in this patch I doubt Talon spam is still an issue.

[WeiTuLo]

It does feel like it. I want to test out double Cobras though. That's 4x Cobras with the ship system, or +100% damage for the first sortie and maybe half for the ones after. Might be good for short duration combat, if it hits. Perhaps a good bomber carrier for a 9-10 speed strike force. Though nowadays, it's really the frigates and enforcers that give problems.

[Locklave]

In 0.95 I prefer Condors over the Drover.  DP-wise you can get 3 Condors for 2 Drovers, 6 wings over 4.  Drover's system doesn't seem to actually improve its combat effectiveness...

I completely agree with this conclusion. That said a won't be spamming fighters anymore, too many skills and systems are required to make them effective. Also all the extra crew req's eating my money.

[Flunky]

One thing that I've noticed is that the ECM skill feels very necessary to offset opponent ECM compared to the relatively modest fighter speed boost and QOL reduced crew loss from the counterpart skill. I initially went with the fighter skill and came to very much regret it after successive fights being stuck at -20% weapon range despite having a decent ECM rating from officers.

[Warnoise]

One thing that I've noticed is that the ECM skill feels very necessary to offset opponent ECM compared to the relatively modest fighter speed boost and QOL reduced crew loss from the counterpart skill. I initially went with the fighter skill and came to very much regret it after successive fights being stuck at -20% weapon range despite having a decent ECM rating from officers.

That's maybe because you are expected to have a carrier heavy fleet so range penalty wouldn't affect you that much since fighters will do most of the fightinf

[TaLaR]

But if you have carrier-heavy fleet you don't benefit much from fleet carrier skills either - they give only 3 extra bays worth of replenishment no matter how many carriers you have.
And I don't think spamming carriers even works anymore. They lose replenishment much faster and get killed by most same size direct combat ships fairly reliably.