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Author Topic: Enforcer needs another ship system  (Read 1246 times)

Warnoise

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Enforcer needs another ship system
« on: April 03, 2021, 02:32:08 AM »

Feels like the enforcer doesn't have a ship system. The current system is not only useless, it is also never used by the AI. If the enforcer can turn around while boosting, it would be decent at least, but currently, the enforcer feels as if it doesn't have burn drive because it is never used neither by the AI nor by the player.
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Igncom1

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 02:34:43 AM »

Low tech does feel strangely typecast with that system. But perhaps the same could be said of other ship types?

Anyway burn drive is good for hunting down phase skimmers like the wolf, but usually only get used when a aggressive captain, or an execute order is used.
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SCC

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 02:45:18 AM »

I am once again asking for making burn drive interruptible again.

TaLaR

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 03:00:58 AM »

Well, Burn drive is good for catching smaller ships, as long as said smaller ships don't have too decisive mobility advantage. Which is exactly what happens to Enforcer - frigates are that much faster. At the same time Enforcer is exactly the ideal prey for larger Burn Drive users.

Enforcer could try to use it's mobility for kiting instead (fast enough turn rate, broad firing angles, lots of long range medium ballistics), but AI doesn't do this and player needs something much better at killing enemies fast to justify opportunity cost (at least SO build of same Enforcer).

AI's usage of BD is also dumb. For example, it unconditionally charges as soon as it sees an enemy in a sim fight. Why would you do that when you have range advantage?

I am once again asking for making burn drive interruptible again.
+1, though it would need to be interruptible by second F press, not just venting, to be useful for AI.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 03:13:25 AM by TaLaR »
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Warnoise

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 08:38:50 PM »

Well, Burn drive is good for catching smaller ships, as long as said smaller ships don't have too decisive mobility advantage. Which is exactly what happens to Enforcer - frigates are that much faster. At the same time Enforcer is exactly the ideal prey for larger Burn Drive users.

Enforcer could try to use it's mobility for kiting instead (fast enough turn rate, broad firing angles, lots of long range medium ballistics), but AI doesn't do this and player needs something much better at killing enemies fast to justify opportunity cost (at least SO build of same Enforcer).

AI's usage of BD is also dumb. For example, it unconditionally charges as soon as it sees an enemy in a sim fight. Why would you do that when you have range advantage?

I am once again asking for making burn drive interruptible again.
+1, though it would need to be interruptible by second F press, not just venting, to be useful for AI.

Or give it mass and let it overflux enemy destroyers and small cruisers when it rams them while they are shielded. That would give a high risk high reward kind of aspect to the enforcer imo. Once I tried in simulator ramming a sunder and it didn't budge, while my enforcer had its engines shut down and started rotating like a turbine
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 08:40:37 PM by Warnoise »
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Volfgarix

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2021, 09:08:37 AM »

If the enforcer can turn around while boosting

My proposition would be some sort of engine overcharge - sudden engine burst that will launch the ship forward, but disable deceleration (and shields) while allowing for rotation for some time.
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Helldiver

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 09:16:49 AM »

I don't mind low-tech ships having less combat-oriented ship systems like burn drive, where burn drive is just there to give them more mobility on longer distances on the battle map while still having the usual low mobility when fighting. Hard agree on AI never using it or using it stupidly though, so making it cancellable (but you still lose the cooldodwn) like others have suggested could make it much more useable without catastrophic results for the AI.
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Daynen

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Re: Enforcer needs another ship system
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 11:53:28 AM »

Burn drive has always been a dangerous thing for the AI to use because it's quite indiscriminate.  Ships will use every mobility system they have to close with the enemy at the start of a battle, leaving them drained of charges at the start of the fight; they will then use it every chance they get, regardless of whether or not its in any way a good decision (coughSTATIONScough.)  Burn drive is one of the worst offenders because it takes so long to end, leaving the ship unable to make choices while the enemy answers with free shots to their sides and rear.  For a ship that ISN'T the biggest boi on the block, this is inviting disaster.  destroyers need to remain mobile and responsive or they die immediately; burn drive takes away their most important survival tool for an eternity in combat time.  I've got CAPITAL SHIPS that can vent a full flux bar faster than burn drive runs down.  That should be saying something.

Maybe another system would be better for the enforcer after all...especially when you look at the enforcer's layout.  It's meant for firing at things encircling it, not focusing all its fire on one target.  It doesn't have the flux to consistently alpha strike a fleeing victim, missile slots notwithstanding; it's stats suggest to me that it's a bulwark, not a hunter.  Perhaps flares would suit it better and add to its point defense, solidifying its role as a line ship.  If I do use one, I usually load it up with strong point defense weapons and deploy it against carrier spam; I don't even have to bring my own popcorn.
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