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[KopiG]

I dont understand these late game fleets. They throw at you everything they got while you can only deploy like 2 Cap ships which are NOT enough vs them. How do you kill them for a weak 160k bounty?
https://imgur.com/HBym8wk

[fallonsky]

I usually had one onslaught that I geared to just take out fighters and shields and then three or four SO hammerheads along with my harbinger. after that its just getting lucky and not having the onslaught being swarmed before you can take enough of them out

[Goumindong]

Presumably by having more than 3 combat ships in your fleet.

I find 350k bounties pretty unreasonable but the 150k bounties aren't that difficult.

Capitals are a dense amount of power but they're not a high amount of raw power. A TT Brawler costs 5 DP and brings 350 dissipation to the fight. So 12 of them bring 4200 dissipation to the fight... Compared to your paragaon which brings like 2000 for 60 DP?

You should move up to larger ships when you start to exhaust your ability to fill out a fleet of officered smaller ships. And this is how the game has always been. Power density starts to matter when you hit the limits of being able to effectively engage with your entire fleet.

[Thaago]

In short: use some smaller ships as escorts to let your capitals vent and not get swarmed!

Capitals ships are great at being concentrated sources of BAM and great duellists/tanks, but like all ships they just don't do that great when they are swarmed (at least not without some specific builds). Like, paradoxically, your 2 capital ships would probably win if the enemy was all capital ships themselves! Its those pesky small ships constantly firing and stopping any venting (and getting up the Legion's engines) that are the problem.

Lets see, a paragon and a Legion is 100 DP, so (if your battle size slider in options is maxed to 400) you have a budget of 60 more points without any capture points. 3 more destroyers (plus your sunder for 4) and 4 frigates, officered or not it doesn't really matter for these fights you just want some numbers and distraction, takes your ship count from 3 to 10: much better for letting your capitals do their thing and pop enemies.

If the logistics of that many more ships is a problem, then I'd say its better to leave one of the capitals at home for a bit as they are very fuel/supply expensive, especially legions and onslaughts (my poor favorite ship is a hog).

[KopiG]

Thank you guys for the tips. So use just 1 Cap ship my Paragon and swarm the enemies with Destroyers?

[Thaago]

That will probably work well! One thing you might want to do in battle is deploy your paragon first, wait a bit, then deploy your destroyers. Or, deploy everything but have the destroyers hang out at a capture point for a little bit while you catch up.

This is just in case the enemy has some nasty SO ships that could overwhelm your escorts if they are separate from your big ship. Hitting the enemy all at once means your destroyers have a big safe zone of your guns to retreat to it they run into trouble.

[KDR_11k]

My understanding is that deployment points are given out based on the relative fleet sizes? So bringing more ships even when you're not planning on fielding them will give you more of a budget to work with.

Other than that the brute force approach would be a quad tachyon Paragon that just swats anything sub-cruiser size in one firing cycle anywhere in its giant field of fire. Twin Paragons with that configuration are even more effective because it makes it even less likely that anything will cross deep enough into their lance range without being obliterated to actually attack. Quad tach lances make up for the lack of hard flux by simply spiking the soft flux so high that most ships are immediately overwhelmed.

[TaLaR]

My understanding is that deployment points are given out based on the relative fleet sizes? So bringing more ships even when you're not planning on fielding them will give you more of a budget to work with.

That was true in 0.91, but isn't anymore. DP are mostly distributed by officers now (probably officer level sum or something similar). And since high tier bounties always have 2-3 times your officer limit, you will always be at maximum disadvantage or close to that.

That will probably work well! One thing you might want to do in battle is deploy your paragon first, wait a bit, then deploy your destroyers.

So I don't think this is a good idea anymore. By doing this you give up capturables and allow enemies to deploy even more ships.

[SCC]

I use a Paragon, 3 Enforcers, 2 Shrikes, a Hammerhead, a Condor, a Drover, 2 Omens, 2 Centurions and a Lasher. I have no trouble dealing with big pather fleets or ~200k bounties.

[Igncom1]

Yeah from what I am seeing the bounties still seem to be disproportionately priced to what you fight.

Perhaps it's different because I don't pilot my own ship, but generally I don't go for equal or unfair fights if I can avoid it. By the time I can fight such fleets, I need more then the bounty pays.

But I am risk averse, as the game kinda teaches you to be. One silly mistake can cost you a whole fleet.

[Megas]

Yeah from what I am seeing the bounties still seem to be disproportionately priced to what you fight.

Perhaps it's different because I don't pilot my own ship, but generally I don't go for equal or unfair fights if I can avoid it. By the time I can fight such fleets, I need more then the bounty pays.

But I am risk averse, as the game kinda teaches you to be. One silly mistake can cost you a whole fleet.

Same here, especially now that s-mods are in play (which means player cannot buy or build new ships without wasting more SP).  This is why I have no problem with raiding or other commerce cheese being so good as it is now.  Combat does not pay enough for the risk, especially if player chooses campaign or QoL skills over combat ones.

[Warnoise]

I can deal with 300k bounty with a full xiv fleet, but I avoid Tri tachyon bounties like the plague because of their doom spam. I also avoid persean league when they have 2+ doom

[KDR_11k]

But I am risk averse, as the game kinda teaches you to be. One silly mistake can cost you a whole fleet.

I guess since the game teaches you to save scum that's a valid approach too. Makes for more interesting battles.

[Golde]

Piecing together from what Alex said over the past few days, your fleet is just not built correctly for any sort of mid to endgame content in his sandbox game.

Forget about getting small ships, because by the time you get to late game against 20+ officers, you're just going to be trickling in your ship one by one.

95a patch broke just as many things as it fixed.

[Megas]

Not to mention if player does not have Wolfpack Tactics, frigates do not have enough PPT to stay in capital spam fights that have remained since 0.9.1.  (And if I have Automated Ships, I am not wasting it on three Lumens when I can deploy the overpowered Radiant instead.)  If I see 250k+ bounties today with as many capitals as last release, or nearly so, we still have capital spam; and it is worse now because they also spam level 6+ officers on most, if not every, ship.

Because I want Combat/Tech/Industry, Wolfpack Tactics is not an option for me.