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Author Topic: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships  (Read 9453 times)

Megas

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2021, 11:11:23 AM »

For that matter, how about Phantom and Revenant, since they appear to be unique quest blueprints?
I got the Phantom blueprint from a ruin, haven't even started unique quests so far (the oldie bar tech-cache Alpha core quest aside)
I found Revenant blueprint, but since none of the factions make them, those blueprints make sense as quest rewards (in case RNG spits on you and gives none or way too late - still remember games being stingy with pristine nanoforge drops).  Currently, I am trying to finish that quest.  (Finally recovered the Radiant guarding the Red Planet and hauled it over to spank the boss fleet with Odyssey in the Phantom blueprint system, but I still have not yet found the blueprint since the boss fleet did not have it.  Must be another way.  At least I got a bunch of ships from that fight, and I have Field Repairs to maybe clean them up.)
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Vind

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2021, 01:33:07 PM »

The ship is nerfed because otherwise you can stomp defenders of the mega structure with it. In nerfed form it is still very useful here but can be substituted by couple of doom cruisers.
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Histidine

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2021, 07:20:34 PM »

Are people seriously complaining that the almost-hardcounters-doritos ship is too weak? Really?
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Hatter

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2021, 08:45:17 PM »

Yes. Yes they are.

There's kind of an entire questline which raises the player's reputation from 'nobody' to 'broadcasted across the sector'

Lore-wise phase ships used to be undetectable, but aren't anymore due to technological advancement- see the Doom's description:
"Designed when phase phase technology was unknown and phase detectors were not a standard of every sensor package, this cruiser has lost the advantage of surprise - but retains a dangerous and flexible weapons loadout."

The ship is also nerfed because it, in player hands, isn't balanced against fighting an entire ~180 DP fleet but 'balanced' for a 75 DP ship. I say 'balanced' because its ability to absolutely shut down any other ship is extremely powerful. If the motes retained their potency the DP would be raised to a point that would impact trying to bring any other sizeable force on the playing field or have it more overtuned then it currently is.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 08:49:28 PM by Hatter »
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Anvel

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 06:09:23 AM »

By the way, does motes counts as missiles or drones?
Anyway, after a little test, it is overpowered after all and worth its costs, yet the time slow effect just sucks.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 06:52:43 AM by Anvel »
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Maethendias

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2021, 04:00:13 PM »

aw, the new capital is a phase ship? god damit
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Arcagnello

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2021, 04:13:47 PM »

aw, the new capital is a phase ship? god damit

It's...uh, definetly a lot more than just a phase ship, you'll have to see it for yourself, I promise you will not be disappointed in it...provided you can best it.
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Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

Rauschkind

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2021, 04:38:47 PM »

i think this ship just is not meant to be flewn around all the time. i think its intentionally done so that you rather keep it in storage untill you really need it.
its also a ressource hog, and you can use it twice a month because it takes about 15 days to recover from a fight.
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Maethendias

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Re: MAJOR STORY SPOILERS! The disappointing nerfs to one of the new ships
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2021, 04:44:19 PM »

aw, the new capital is a phase ship? god damit

It's...uh, definetly a lot more than just a phase ship, you'll have to see it for yourself, I promise you will not be disappointed in it...provided you can best it.

its a phase ship, stat
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Wywern

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I think it's actually embarrassing how weak the ship is, and even more embarrassing how people defend it. It's literally outperformed by a less than half as expensive generic phase ship, can easily be killed in it's full-power form with a single paragon, and imparts MASSIVE maluses for even daring to have it in one's fleet. This is the same kind of completely nonsensical overnerfing of the player in a single-player only game as capping AI ships to 30 deployment points without an officer, while seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that the paragon is more powerful than any of these supposedly "too overpowered" ships like the radiant and the exploratorium drone battleship (I could remember this one wrong, since it's been a while since I saw it). Not only that, it's a phase ship with a frail hull and mediocre armor. So what if it can mostly shut down a single ship? My radiant with a reality disruptor can do that, and it has the shields to not get shot to pieces by every other hostile around the targeted ship.

And to everyone justifying this with the "muh hypershunt guardians", this ship would get obliterated the second it drops it's phase, especially since there's 2 guardians. Not only that, it's ridiculous to imply you would need this ship to defeat them anyway. I did it with a single onslaught, a radiant, and a few cruisers, and it wasn't that hard. A paragon would be much more useful against the guardians for many reason, not least of which being that it's one of the only ships able to withstand a focused onslaught from them, as well as being able to support other ships and make disengaging very hard due to it's immense range. I had to actually make a forum account to post this, because apparently it's okay for a capital ship at the end of a long line of quests to be an actual detriment.

TL:DR:
The paragon is and has always been immensely overpowered for even it's deployment cost of 60 and I'm tired of pretending it's not, and even more tired of everyone acting like it doesn't exist when considering "balance."
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Ad Astra

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It would be a great mechanic to ensure there are no witnesses.

Getting relation mallus when wiping out a fleet without them knowing it's me is infuriating, yeah yeah, you don't want players to go around murdering everyone, I digress! You can do that in Skyrim without issues and most people won't do that anyways, this is an RPG, let the people RP dangit. Just have more powerful fleets appear and patrol around the places you have been doing your recreational murder-hobo stuff.

I couldn't possibly care less about lore/realism.

You take that back this instant, young man!

Please, for the love of all that's holy, just let us do SOMETHING cool. No pilotable Radiants, the new colony items are a scam, new weapons are post-game content, and we can't even have a cool unique capital?

Yeah, I agree with all that, while I like the fact that there will possibly be more unique ships in the future (I hope), it doesn't really fit this one, spooky stealthy ships and all. I also want damaging motes, come on the thing costs 75 supplies per month and takes half a year to recover CR! You want me to use it or not? It's like either Alex is also a balance junkie or he tries to cover from the ones we have here lol.
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Megas

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I just want to be able to use it in more than one fight.  -50% CR is too much.  Not even Hyperion costs that much CR.  It is not overpowered enough to be a once-per-adventure superweapon.
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SCC

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This is the same kind of completely nonsensical overnerfing of the player in a single-player only game as capping AI ships to 30 deployment points without an officer, while seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that the paragon is more powerful than any of these supposedly "too overpowered" ships like the radiant and the exploratorium drone battleship (I could remember this one wrong, since it's been a while since I saw it). Not only that, it's a phase ship with a frail hull and mediocre armor. So what if it can mostly shut down a single ship? My radiant with a reality disruptor can do that, and it has the shields to not get shot to pieces by every other hostile around the targeted ship.
I'm actually surprised you used a Radiant and didn't think it was the most powerful ship in the game. My own is capable of killing other Radiants and Tessaracts singlehandedly, though admittedly mainly by lobbing insane numbers of sabots and hammers or reapers their way. Still, if you can get triple missiles, why not?

Wywern

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This is the same kind of completely nonsensical overnerfing of the player in a single-player only game as capping AI ships to 30 deployment points without an officer, while seemingly completely oblivious to the fact that the paragon is more powerful than any of these supposedly "too overpowered" ships like the radiant and the exploratorium drone battleship (I could remember this one wrong, since it's been a while since I saw it). Not only that, it's a phase ship with a frail hull and mediocre armor. So what if it can mostly shut down a single ship? My radiant with a reality disruptor can do that, and it has the shields to not get shot to pieces by every other hostile around the targeted ship.
I'm actually surprised you used a Radiant and didn't think it was the most powerful ship in the game. My own is capable of killing other Radiants and Tessaracts singlehandedly, though admittedly mainly by lobbing insane numbers of sabots and hammers or reapers their way. Still, if you can get triple missiles, why not?
That's exactly it. The radiant CAN be stronger than the paragon, but I think in general when fortress shield is used well, paragon wins out. The reason I think that is because it makes you basically impossible to burst or focus down, and can counteract things like aforementioned sabot and torpedo spam. I've cleared out the entire simulator with 2 paragons 200 deployment points at a time with 2 paragons, because they can basically infinitely cover each other. I definitely think the radiant can kill things faster, but if I had to take multiples of one or the other to a really tough battle it would definitely be the paragon. If I actually got to try out 70% base readiness on as many alpha core radiants as I wanted to, I might change my mind, but I doubt it.

Temporary, on-demand invulnerability is just so damn powerful compared to a short blink that drops your shields.
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