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Author Topic: Unstable Injector hullmod  (Read 3520 times)

Serenitis

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2022, 12:03:50 AM »

I use injectors a lot. Faster is always better.
The fact its a flat boost makes it incredibly appealing to put it on ships with a lower base speed.
Changing a lumbering block of armour from 30 speed to 45 is very noticable.

The range malus is either overshadowed by the bonus from DTC/ITU (which is almost an auto-pick for everything), completely irrelevant for the role of the ship, or just straight up ignorable.
The fighter stuff is annoying, but liveable.
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Excretusmaximus

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2022, 03:54:08 AM »

Sorry I missed these, I've been away!

My guess is that EDC costs a lot for a minor increase you'll barely notice, better to invest in other areas. I personally haven't used the hullmod a single time after the nerf, just by looking at numbers it seems super meh.

Yeah exactly this: The actual amount of the bonus is small and dwarfed by skills - for ships with a moderate amount of carriers, the bonuses from skills with officers are so large that they actually have no need to better their replacement rate! The OP can be better spent on either higher end fighters, or more/bettter missiles, or better shields, or a few defense guns to shoot off fighters/frigates... you get the idea.

Thank you.
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coldiceEVO

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2022, 01:46:49 AM »

I really need to try it out again. This hullmod is long forgotten for me for being way too defensive late game. It just sit between hyperaggressive SO that combines this, aux thruster, double venting and a PPT/CR-dmod for the cost of 3 hullmods, and long ranged based defensive styles as endurance offensive build.
I guess the change of impression stems from knowing the fact that range makes ai at ease and more focus fire in formation, and it is more comfort than the experience of babby sitting to command ai ship to be aggressive or evasive. Admittedly in many of these experience these ship also lacks UI, which the ai don't have the speed to break contact, get in range, or press down advantage fast enough to be decisive and sucessive.
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Megas

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2022, 03:58:16 AM »

There are few ships that make good use of Unstable Injector.  But for general use, the OP cost and shot range loss kills it.  For AI, shot range is better than speed.

Yeah exactly this: The actual amount of the bonus is small and dwarfed by skills - for ships with a moderate amount of carriers, the bonuses from skills with officers are so large that they actually have no need to better their replacement rate! The OP can be better spent on either higher end fighters, or more/bettter missiles, or better shields, or a few defense guns to shoot off fighters/frigates... you get the idea.
If player has carrier skills, sure, the bonus is too small compared to the skills.  But what if the player cannot get carrier skills due to points?  In my case, I have no more points left for Leadership skills.  (And if I did, Crew Training and Wolfpack Tactics are more tempting.)

I do think EDC is a bit weak and it should be restored or OP cost made cheaper, but for those who cannot get the carrier skills, it is the only option for boosting rate.  Because of no Leadership, I grudgingly try to save enough OP for EDC, even if it is weak; but I would love to see that hullmod be more on par with the skill like various other boosts like Hardened Shields for shields.
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2022, 08:08:06 AM »

I tried UI on the Paragon and it's actually pretty good. That 100% range bonus gets dropped to 70% after UI which still outranges other capitals at 60%. If you factor in gunnery implants it's 182.75% against 175% so it's still in the Paragon's favor. Elite helmsmanship and max CR gets you up to 56 speed, almost double the baseline and I gotta say... you REALLY notice. It's much harder for enemy capitals to escape and you become extremely difficult to pin down long enough to do serious damage.

While ballistic weapons will often outrange your hardflux options it's not by a large margine and the speed advantage is still very worth it. If you're fighting the [Redacted] it's not even an issue.
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Thaago

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2022, 09:33:30 AM »

There are few ships that make good use of Unstable Injector.  But for general use, the OP cost and shot range loss kills it.  For AI, shot range is better than speed.

I think this depends on the stage of the game and what the expected enemies are. Both shot range and speed are very important, and they are linked with each other in value, but early I will take speed over shotrange for frigates and destroyers. If my ships are faster than the enemy, then its much harder for them to be killed by swarming enemy forces - a cloud of pirate frigates vs my fleet with like 4 ships, range is way less important than speed! Similarly, if my ships are faster then inferior enemies can't get away when I give eliminate orders.

Midgame things change because the expected enemies get slower and the numbers become more even: the challenge isn't so much avoiding getting swarmed, its 'punching up' and having your frigates/destroyers stand off enemy destroyer/cruisers/capitals. Since they are already faster than (most of) their targets and (usually) outranged to begin with, minimizing the amount of time they are exposed without firing back becomes my most important metric. In that case, its a balance of distance lost vs speed gained, which depends on their range (and ITU counts here since the player usually has it by now) and speed. Frigates still get UI, and brawling destroyers with shorter ranged weaponry (Medusa, Shrikes, mortar/railgun hammerhead for example) could go either ITU or UI, while longer ranged destroyers get ITU.

I have a hard time justifying UI on cruisers or capitals because the amount of speed they gain is the lowest, but the amount of range they lose is the highest (as it multiplies by DTC/ITU as well as base).

For lategame I've swapped my destroyers to ITU: they are mainly fighting ships much more powerful than them (6+ skill capitals, alpha core brilliants/radiants, etc) and might not even be officered depending on if I'm going for a support doctrine or best of the best build, so they can't afford to be engaging close in (unless the whole fleet strategy is swarming).

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If player has carrier skills, sure, the bonus is too small compared to the skills.  But what if the player cannot get carrier skills due to points?  In my case, I have no more points left for Leadership skills.  (And if I did, Crew Training and Wolfpack Tactics are more tempting.)

I do think EDC is a bit weak and it should be restored or OP cost made cheaper, but for those who cannot get the carrier skills, it is the only option for boosting rate.  Because of no Leadership, I grudgingly try to save enough OP for EDC, even if it is weak; but I would love to see that hullmod be more on par with the skill like various other boosts like Hardened Shields for shields.

Anyone can get the carrier skills. They are tier 0 with no prerequisites. If you chose not to do so it means you prioritize the other skill picks above a very large increase in carrier effectiveness. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's the choice.
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Megas

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2022, 03:34:06 PM »

Anyone can get the carrier skills. They are tier 0 with no prerequisites. If you chose not to do so it means you prioritize the other skill picks above a very large increase in carrier effectiveness. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's the choice.
I know carrier skills are low tier and have no prerequisites.  My question or point was if EDC is worth it if player wants to use carriers but cannot take Carrier Group because all skill points are tied up elsewhere.  If carriers need a rate boost to be viable (later in the game), but EDC is bad enough that is not worth it even to otherwise unskilled carriers, then carriers requiring a skill to be good enough (later in the game) is kind of lame.  I am disappointed with EDC overall, but if I do not have Carrier Group, it feels like I may need EDC anyway just so rate does not crash to 30% as fast.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Unstable Injector hullmod
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2022, 04:30:38 PM »

I've found that UI on frigates in late game is kinda meh. Frigates biggest problem in late game is not dying, and having to go into such close range to deal damage is frequently suicidal against bigger ships, particularly since it can force you into range bands of very short range high DPS weapons like MGs. I prefer capacitors tbh.
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