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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive  (Read 8692 times)

Kh0rnet

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2021, 08:06:57 AM »

Boy, you ain't seen nothing yet...


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Amoebka

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2021, 08:14:12 AM »

Yeah I'll pay you 350k for that. You up, champ?
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Lucky33

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2021, 08:20:51 AM »

Only five frigates. Nothing else worth mentioning  8).
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2021, 08:28:00 AM »

Honestly, there's a point in endgame where that fleet is worth trying kill just for the weapons that drop from the new ships lol. Whether I could actually kill it is another story.
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sector_terror

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2021, 10:18:25 AM »

Boy, you ain't seen nothing yet...

I will be honest, that doesn't look all that bad. It looks like an actually balanced late-game encounter. Well, officer spam not withstanding but even Alex admitted he went a bit too far on it. The story mods are a bit iffy but not for high late game fleets.
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Megas

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2021, 11:03:16 AM »

As for the radiant debate, 50% CR is pretty much already "fully powered". With how huge PPT is, it's not going to tick down into malfunction range anyway.
With Special Modifications as it is, nah.  Giving up Special Modifications is a huge sacrifice, so the alternative better be worth it.  Also, 50% (actually a bit less than that without Crew Training) means it is in malfunction territory after one fight.  Without min-maxing max CR, I see Efficiency Overhaul mandatory on it just so its CR can recover fast enough out of the yellow if it needs to fight another encounter shortly after its first fight is done.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2021, 11:20:20 AM »

After my first play through where I rushed special modification. I really don't think it's worth it until fairly late in the game. I think I had 3 ships with a third S mod for most of the game. Although the patch increasing story point generation happened in the middle so it's hard to say exactly how that worked out. I think I will take the AI skill next time early, and spec out of it late.
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Radicaljack

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2021, 11:28:36 AM »

Love most things in this patch, but the DP and officer stuff is really dumb. I cannot wait for a mod to change it because it's really making late game miserable and if you were still using a frigate or dessie anywhere. Also SP is flawed, you cannot accrue more fast enough to fight, and while mercs are a cool idea the cost of them in sp form is not sustainable. Fighting one fight then saying "well guess the next time i'll just be ***" is dumb.
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Megas

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2021, 11:30:40 AM »

After my first play through where I rushed special modification. I really don't think it's worth it until fairly late in the game. I think I had 3 ships with a third S mod for most of the game. Although the patch increasing story point generation happened in the middle so it's hard to say exactly how that worked out. I think I will take the AI skill next time early, and spec out of it late.
I would not rush it either because I probably do not have all of the good hullmods I want builtin when I can learn Spec.Mods.  I lucked out with Missile Racks early, but I did not get the rest until late in the game.

But late in the game when I have everything I need and points to burn, I would go nuts with s-mods if I have Spec.Mods.

Love most things in this patch, but the DP and officer stuff is really dumb. I cannot wait for a mod to change it because it's really making late game miserable and if you were still using a frigate or dessie anywhere. Also SP is flawed, you cannot accrue more fast enough to fight, and while mercs are a cool idea the cost of them in sp form is not sustainable. Fighting one fight then saying "well guess the next time i'll just be ***" is dumb.
Colony improvement costs mean that any spare points get hoarded then eaten by colonies if I do not need them for s-mods.

P.S.  Speaking of colonies, improvements plus Industrial Planning means it is possible to meet demand without items.  Nice for cramming (Heavy Industry and Fuel Production) industries on one planet without aggravating the Pathers (since classic items add +4 to interest).  Lower ship quality is tolerable if infrequent enough for Field Repairs to remove d-mods.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:33:23 AM by Megas »
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Demetrious

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2021, 10:45:49 AM »

My issue with this is that mercenaries are extraordinarily rare. Officers can come from my own fleet, or comms at planets, or exploration. At this point I have 9 officers (one I can't use), have dismissed 3 to make room for another, and have turned down multiple crew promotions and routinely don't hire people on planets. I'd estimate that I've seen 30 officers cross my path.

I think this is the crux of it. In settings.json you can muck with many values, but it also shows that the AI should be limited to 10 officers (the same as the player if they have the skill for +2 officers, as the code comment explicitly mentions,) and 2 mercenary officers. I'm sure Alex is baffled by everyone griping about officer spam. The reason we're not matching enemy fleets officer for officer is one of ramp-up; even if I had been budgeting for officers and aggressively checking the comm directory at every quick colony stop I'd be hard pressed, I suspect, to have eight level 5 officers (even mentoring all of them) by the time bounty fleets seem to be chucking 10 officers + 2 mercenary officers at me, most of them close to or at max level.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Bounties Can Get a Bit Excessive
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2021, 01:47:12 PM »

My issue with this is that mercenaries are extraordinarily rare. Officers can come from my own fleet, or comms at planets, or exploration. At this point I have 9 officers (one I can't use), have dismissed 3 to make room for another, and have turned down multiple crew promotions and routinely don't hire people on planets. I'd estimate that I've seen 30 officers cross my path.

I think this is the crux of it. In settings.json you can muck with many values, but it also shows that the AI should be limited to 10 officers (the same as the player if they have the skill for +2 officers, as the code comment explicitly mentions,) and 2 mercenary officers. I'm sure Alex is baffled by everyone griping about officer spam. The reason we're not matching enemy fleets officer for officer is one of ramp-up; even if I had been budgeting for officers and aggressively checking the comm directory at every quick colony stop I'd be hard pressed, I suspect, to have eight level 5 officers (even mentoring all of them) by the time bounty fleets seem to be chucking 10 officers + 2 mercenary officers at me, most of them close to or at max level.
"officerAIMaxMercsMult":2, # maximum "over-the-limit" merc-type officers that can be added to an AI fleet, times doctrine officer setting

I don't think it is +2 but 2 times the factions officer doctrine setting. I don't know how that doctrine is set up though but that might the Merc limit could be up to like 4X the normal officer limits. And since Mercs are usually higher level...
@Alex (if you're watching), can we get some info on how this works exactly?
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