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Author Topic: [0.6.1a] Interstellar Federation v1.27  (Read 365828 times)

Uomoz

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #210 on: May 21, 2012, 06:20:19 PM »

Shields up, they will give hell.
Shields down, they just poke you :)

:D, someone is actually digging into my design decisions, I'm happy.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #211 on: May 26, 2012, 12:09:12 PM »

So, I started playing Uomoz's Corvus a couple weeks ago.  I started with a Scythe, and immediately my attention was drawn to the IF ships.  In vanilla I loved expansion tech, everything from their aesthetics to the playstyle appealed to me.  The IF ships all have slim tactical profiles and some have interesting firing arcs.  They just screamed "Professional military" to me.  They're a little short on energy weapons, but their reliance on ballistic weapons just reinforces that army feel.

However, after getting into more of the ships I soon found them to be quite unsatisfactory.  They were underpowered.  The Dakota and Shogun were abysmal; I couldn't stop looking over to the Lasher and realizing just how much better it was.  IF ships are expensive, afford little OP and few weapon slots, and generally aren't very flexible.  I was disappointed, but I kept playing.

It grew on me.  Far more than I expected.  I refit them as best I could and found myself pairing hypervelocity drivers and heavy maulers to brutal effect.  My Dakotas have a light needler, two assault guns and a vulcan cannon on them.  My shogun had the aforementioned pair with a few LMGs and a tactical laser.  Ares cruisers have the pair as well, with two heavy maulers and one driver.

That said, even after I found an enthusiasm for the faction they still seem wanting.  My ships tend to underperform and I lose Dakotas left and right.  Overall, I can't seem to pinpoint what the faction is supposed to be.  They all seem to have low durable with decent maneuverability and speeds, but are rather undergunned.  I can't shake the feeling they're quite underpowered.  The Battlecruiser has a few medium ballistic mounts and one large missile mount, and this pales in comparison to any vanilla ship.  They do well enough in simulations, but I fear that's merely my personal skill compensating heavily for what seems to be the Imperial Guardsmen of Corvus.

Is that what you were going for?  They seem too expensive to be cannon fodder.  The battleships are quite powerful, though the Carrier has no flight decks (I think this is a bug.)  The faction's early game seems horribly pitiful with no benefits, implying a fleet with hegemony frigates and destroyers with IF battleships would be the best use of the faction.

Aside from some sketchy graphics I really enjoy the look of these ships.  In fact, I still like the entire faction, even if it's underpowered.  I can't wait to see some IF fighters.  I'm hoping they'll be reminiscent of midtech fighters; mostly just heavy fighters with a lack of actual bombers.  Perhaps a fast fighter wing with an autocannon and a rocket pod.  Perhaps a fighter-bomber.  I don't doubt you have something thought up already.

Oh, and I hope I'm not mirroring some concerns already voiced in the 15 pages of this thread.  I also hope it wasn't too exhausting to read it all, if you did.  :P
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keptin

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #212 on: May 26, 2012, 02:08:45 PM »

Hey, thanks for the feedback!  It wasn't exhausting to read at all, it was actually very helpful.  IFed ships are interesting to play.  They excel in small tactical battles where the player can better micromanage, but are a challenge to play in large fleet engagements.  More importantly, their ships tend to be more specialized than those of the vanilla races.  I agree that they're expensive, lack vanilla numbers of weapon mounts [in place of other strengths] and are generally bigger targets.


The Dakota, for instance, is a good little cargo hauling frigate, but it's not too hot in battle due to its slow speed and odd firing arcs.  The Shogun, while in need of a buff, is an interdictor designed to capture and hold distant relays and nav buoys, fending off fast frigates and fighters, but little else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0q9akqLnVg&hd=1

The Antares, a well armored and capable battlecruiser that's more powerful than it looks due to its zero-flux missile weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsWXUg7UcWI&hd=1

The Titan launch bay bug should have been fixed in 1.17+, but I rely on user play testing and feedback to hunt down bugs and help balance. I can reassess the balance of some ships.  In the mean time, try the Toa, Mercury and Yukon.  They should give your fleets some umph.

NikolaiLev

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #213 on: May 26, 2012, 04:15:21 PM »

Believe me, I've discovered the Toa and the Defiant pack serious punch.  I might end up making those the backbone of my fleet, but I try to maintain a balanced fleet (which generally involves more frigates.)

I wanted to think of the Dakota as an extremely cheap workhorse frigate, but its price and FP kind of get in the way of that.  It certainly deserves a lower price.  That said, its efficient shields makes it quite capable.  Lowering it to 4 FP would require a lot of deliberation.  The biggest problem is the AI is nowhere near as good at piloting the thing as I am.  Dunno what can be done about that.  Sometimes, a light needler and two assault guns is all you need.  That said, the Scythe is ridiculously better than the Dakota.

Like I mentioned earlier, the IF's early game seems unduly weak.  Price drops would make them competitive with other frigates.  The Orion is very good, but it seems it's too reliant on having a Mass Driver (which seems rather overpowered to me.)  That and two assault guns makes it ridiculous at killing anything that doesn't have too terribly much armor.  I haven't gotten much use out of the Rickshaw to say how good it is, but it's certainly not a replacement for the Dakota as the description implies (it's a strike frigate, Dakota is all purpose).

I think you can infer I want to like the Dakota.  There's something about it.  It's weak one on one, sure, but if it was lowered to 4 FP and say, 4k-5k it would suddenly become an efficient workhorse of an IF fleet.  But I don't know if that's how you want the faction to work.  Overall I think what could be improved the most about it is the faction's direction.  From what you said it seems the ships are all meant to be specialized.  But the way I build them (to be most effective) they're all quite generalist.  Maybe that's just a function of how I personally play.  Well, no, I know for a fact that's the case, given how much I like to have an equal spread of kinetic and explosive weapons.

It bears emphasis.  Anytime I pilot one of these ships I do just fine.  I can leverage their maneuverability in conjunction with their slim profile, toggling shields to only intercept what I need to (the shield ends up intercepting many more projectiles than it needs to if left to the AI) and stay at range to synergize with all of the above.  The AI pilots them like they're clumsy Hegemony ships.  It's disappointing seeing an Ares fly right up to an enemy ship when it really shouldn't be.  Elliptical shields would help a lot, but that's probably outside the scope of your modding abilities.

Oh.  I remember another really critical thing.  Please, for the love of god, give the Antares omni shield generator by default?  I can't tell you how indispensable it is, and I feel like I'm spending 40 more OP than I really should.  I said the Antares was weak because I compared it to the Conquest.  Perhaps this was an unfair comparison, but given their FP costs the difference in firepower is just staggering.

Ahh, now I remember one of my other concerns.  IF ships have a woeful lack of PD slots.  But you know, this is fine enough as long as it's accounted for as a weakness.  This becomes extremely obvious when you're against the scourge and all of those tiny missiles get through.  Most ships have one or three small slots protecting the engine and that's it.  But I like that, that's unique, that should stay.

By the way, the Mercury and the Yukon aren't in the current Uomoz version.  I'd love to try them out, though.  Hopefully the next UC version will include 1.18.
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Uomoz

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #214 on: May 26, 2012, 04:41:14 PM »

By the way, the Mercury and the Yukon aren't in the current Uomoz version.  I'd love to try them out, though.  Hopefully the next UC version will include 1.18.

Sorry to interrupt. I'll release a Uomoz's Corvus DEV 15 tomorrow with IF, Relics and Ante factions updated and a Release Candidate feel (can't get a script right yet, I hope it'll work someday).
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NikolaiLev

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #215 on: May 27, 2012, 12:50:07 AM »

At first I was going to wait for a release, but I guess I'll help out with bug testing and stuff.  I'll get that when it's released.
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keptin

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #216 on: May 27, 2012, 02:34:39 AM »

I'll look at prices again, but I'm comfortable where the fleetpoint values are at.

Fictionally, the Federation is going through revolutionary changes to its ship design philosophies.  First, you have old ships like the Dakota, Titan, and Toa.  Then you have established ships like the Ares, Orion, and Vixen.  Then you have new ships such as the Rickshaw, the Antares, etc.  During the production of these recent ships, some ten to twenty years ago, the Federation began to break its isolationist tendencies and involve itself in galactic politics.  Ship design was greatly influenced as it learned from both new allies and enemies.  The Scourge infestation forced some of these "new doctrine" ships into immediate production and a series of prototypes, either in testing prior to the invasion or specifically designed to fight the Scourge, were added to the Federation combat ship registry.

The descriptions and lore dates need to be consolidated at this point, but the following is when major Federation events roughly take place:
The year is 2595
-1500 years ago, the United Republic sends thousands of colony ships on distant one way trips to a galaxy far away, seeding life in the fringe of known space
-1000 years ago, galactic war breaks out and the colonies are thrown into a dark age
-350 years ago, the Federation is established, uniting the colonies under one flag
-115 years ago, the Jardain First Contact War begins
-94 years ago, the Jardain retreat to their domain and the crippled Federation begins to rebuild, marking the beginning of the Jardain-Federation Cold War
-76 years ago, a worker strike begins on several planets belonging to the mega-conglomerate UniTech United over living conditions and wages, spreading to two nearby systems controlled by rival companies.  The situation soon becomes a violent uprising coined by the media as the Miner Rebellion.  Three years go by with the rebellion gaining force, at which time the Federation military steps in and quashes it in 2 months.
-25 years ago, the Federation ends its isolationist policies and involves itself in galactic politics
-1 year ago, the Scourge invades populated galactic space

Making older ships affordable and useful is important, but instead of seeing them gain additional weapon mounts, you'll see new ships join the fleet.  I have fun discovering the most valuable ship, whether it be for combat, cargo hauling, etc.  Ships like the Dakota and Orion are there to give the player options, not to be the ideal choices for their credits and fleet points.  

Combat isn't the only factor attributing to a ship's cost; the lovable Dakota-class has four (albeit strangely arced) small mounts, shields, a good deal of armor and some hefty cargo space.  Dakotas are odd, a bit slow and have a lot of personality (i.e. they're patched together like a farm pickup), but they've proven their worth and are tough little frigates that the Feds use for utility roles.  In short, they cost what they do because they're decent and hold more cargo than any vanilla frigate; I wouldn't send them on a suicide mission against the Scourge.  What's most surprising is that of all the Fed ships, the little-frigate-that-could Dakota gets the most love.  Three people have mentioned how much they care for them--they must hit a Serenity vibe or something.  If an offbeat crew of bandits were being chased by the Tri Tachyon, I suspect they'd be piloting a Dakota.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 05:48:31 AM by keptin »
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NikolaiLev

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #217 on: May 27, 2012, 11:01:25 AM »

Well, remember, I'm not suggesting the ships are given much more firepower at all, especially the Dakota.  That would really muss with the feel of the ships, and take away from the IG vibe I love from them.  Prices and efficiency are my only concern.

It also has to be said how useful cargo space is on a frigate.  I certainly don't see it as a useful thing, given the existence of cargo barges, and the ability for larger ships to have more cargo space.

The Dakota's shields are really good and help it survive even in a total fleet engagement.  Thanks to its few weapon mounts, those few mounts can mount some serious firepower (see: light needler) so I can understand keeping the FP at 5.  By the way, the Destroyers are extremely well priced (they're all 10k or so) as well as the cruisers.  But the frigates are just so out of line.  Like I said, if you stick with an IF only fleet, your early game will be awful unless you rush a cruiser (which is not very desirable given low travel time restricts you from catching up to the things you can actually fight.)

I just want the frigates to be cheaper, I guess.  I like them a lot, not just the Dakota.  The Scythe can stay where it's at; Hound-grade speed, a competent shield, a medium ballistic and three small ones is a HUGE amount of winforever.  The Orion is tanky as hell, so that can stay near where it is.  The Rickshaw I haven't gotten much use out of, but it's a specialized vessel (I'd compare it to the Vigilance.)  But then there's the Dakota, trailing far behind not only the IF frigates, but also the rest of the Galaxy's frigates.

As for why I like the Dakota... I dunno.  I've never watched Serenity.  I like the look of it.  I like the "old, rusty trusty" feel from it.  And I like the challenge that comes from using such a meager weapons loadout.  .8 Omni shields, a light needler and some assault guns is all you need sometimes.  :D  If the Dakota's price is improved, I would also hope they become more abundant in the station.  Quite frankly I would not think twice about putting six of them in my main battle fleet.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #218 on: May 30, 2012, 11:23:07 PM »

A minor suggestion.  The Toa is an excellent destroyer, but the energy mounts are kind of wasted because they're hardpoints and they turn so pitifully slowly, even with a fast-moving tactical laser.  They also have trouble hitting things in front of the ship.  It'd be nice if they were changed to turrets, and the arcs made slightly bigger so they could hit a target in front.  At the very least, make the weapons face forward by default if possible; the weapons generally can't be brought to bear since small energy weapons tend to have short ranges anyway.

By the way, the Yukon is a monster!  I never imagined the beauty of 8 light needlers and 5 heavy maulers.  Simple, yet effective.  It's a giant spaceship-shaped hammer.  :D

I noticed your new obsession with light assault gun arrays.  That said, I had a lot of trouble making the Mercury very effective, and even with its current build it seems to lack oomph.  But I suppose all IF ships lack the sheer killing power vanilla ships tend to bring, but still manage to get the job done (though generally only by rigorous min/maxing.)  I realized the Ares and Yukon have flight decks, and found it odd considering they both seemed so assault-oriented.  But I can't say I disagree with the notion of the IF lacking dedicated carriers - I like it!  More uniqueness.

Now I'd just like to see fighters, and more polish done on the sprites in general (imo the Ares is the best, most complete looking.)
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keptin

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #219 on: May 30, 2012, 11:55:18 PM »

That said, I had a lot of trouble making the Mercury very effective, and even with its current build it seems to lack oomph.

Can you describe the scenario in which the Mercury underperformed?

IIE16 Yoshi

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #220 on: May 31, 2012, 01:49:41 AM »

Call me bland but when I was using IF ships, I just smothered them in those HV Autoguns in all shapes and sizes.  ::)
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keptin

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #221 on: May 31, 2012, 03:13:46 AM »

Ha, hopefully that was after they were nerfed.  They act in more of a "graviton" support role now, but I think I went a little too far.

Rymosrac

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #222 on: May 31, 2012, 07:38:38 AM »

Wait. . . did you remove the other two variants on the "Piranha" launcher?
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keptin

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #223 on: May 31, 2012, 09:09:05 AM »

Yup, a long time ago.  They'll be introduced with new sprites at some point, each using a different damage type and unique delivery method.

Seriyu92

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Re: Interstellar Federation v1.18
« Reply #224 on: May 31, 2012, 10:56:23 AM »

I've been playing the Uomoz's Corvuz mod for about a month now, and I have to say that the IF is hands down the most enjoyable faction I've played thus far in starfarer. At first I was turned off by the asymetrical design of this ships, favoring having the versitility of having no weak side. But there was just something about the ship's designs and color scheme that caught my eye so I decided to give a Dakota start a chance, and it was probabily the most fun Ive had in starfarer. That feeling of bringing down a ships shields with a light needler and the proceeding to give a good broadside with the right side rail guns while circling like an AC-130 gives such a satisfying "*** yeah" feeling.

Ever since then I've been an IF devotee, trying to come up with fleet compositions composed entirely of IF ships, which was both fun and very very frustrating. Seeing a 7.5k Scythe with a Mass Driver explode because the A.I can't use hardpoints effectively, or seeing a dakota circle an enemy with the least amount of hardpoints facing the enemy hurts, espceially if you worked for an hour farming the necessary credits.

But the IF ships just grant a sense of achivement. The ships are designed to reward skill and because they're all designed to fit certain roles, and excel at them if properly used, like the underpowered but fast echo class that can be used to capture a point before retreating.

One of the few things missing from the IF fleet at the moment in my opinion is a dedicated carrier and a IF fighter/bomber. The only ships to my knowledge so far that have a flight deck are the ares destroyer and the titan seige capital ship (which is currently glitched). Another suggestion would be a sort of flak/carrier hybrid destroyer that can fit the role of anti-fighter that the IF fleet so badly needs at the frigate/destroyer level since the small ballistics mounts on the dakota, rickshaw and better used for broadsides then anti-fighter/bomber. And with the lack of a carrier until the Ares, fighter escorts get decimated and replacing them, along with stupid A.I losses are unsustainable to the amount of loot per battle.

Other than that I have no real complaints! You've created a unique and well balanced mod and I cant wait to see future updates!
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