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Author Topic: Slow ships are lackluster now  (Read 9404 times)

Warnoise

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Slow ships are lackluster now
« on: March 28, 2021, 06:43:47 AM »

Since everything zips around like a formula 1 and hits like a truck, ships like dominator and onslaught just get bullied and die.

If you want experience how being kited forever and not being able to kill anything feels like, then just play one of the ships above.
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TaLaR

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2021, 06:48:50 AM »

Slow ships were always lackluster. Though Onslaught/Dominator do have Burn Drive to help with this issue.

Though in a way, player fleet did become slower - Coordinated Maneuvers are pretty much an inaccessible skill now: if you take it, you won't have Wolfpack Tactics, meaning very short PPT for frigates, so your nice CM boost to speed won't last.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 06:50:29 AM by TaLaR »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2021, 09:42:18 AM »

Both wolfpack tactics and coordinated maneuvers only affect officered frigates (and destroyers for CM). They're really unimpressive skills in a big fleet IMO.
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TaLaR

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2021, 10:04:38 AM »

CM is affects whole fleet, but it's impossible to provide without crippling your fleet composition (7 DE fleet, or frigates with too low PPT to be useful) or skill tree (7 points into leadership).
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Serenitis

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2021, 11:02:25 AM »

Wolfpack is only frigates with officers.
CM is only frigates and destroyers with officers.
So if you don't fly a frigate or destroyer yourself, or have lots of officers to do so; tough luck. Skill gates for you.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2021, 11:27:59 AM »

I decided not to take any skills in leadership, partially for this reason.
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IonDragonX

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2021, 11:48:01 AM »

Wolfpack is only frigates with officers.
CM is only frigates and destroyers with officers.
Funny how the AI can have an Officer for every combat ship in a 30 ship fleet, isn't it? I hope they don't have access to WP or CM...
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2021, 02:17:54 PM »

Dominator has always needed a range advantage and a rearguard, then front-facing 2L2M ballistics and 3M missiles bully everything in the game.

New escort-order AI has made it even better.
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Warnoise

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2021, 07:52:52 PM »

Range advantage doesn't mean much when enemy cruiser/capital can get in your face in a second. Range advantage means a lot when you have the speed to kite with it. Conquest for example can benefit a lot from range advantage. Same goes for the new midline cruiser.

I think to make up for lack speed and shield flux stats (2 most important stats in the game) dominator and onslaught need at least excellent flux dissipation stats.

Nobody plays with dominator now because it is the worst cruiser in the game. And onslaughts are always replaced by either conquests and paragons (if we talk cost/performance) because they are more useful than a mini orbital station with *** flux stats.
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Thaago

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2021, 08:15:53 PM »

? I still play with them. I know a lot of other people do too. I haven't yet reached the capital stage this game, but I struggle to see how the Onslaught could have gotten worse with the massive number of buffs it got for this version.

Dominators have the heaviest missile load, longest range, and strongest armor of any cruiser. They have the best point defenses. They have lackluster but acceptable shields and a glaringly exposed rear. its up to the player to both negate those penalties when in their fleet and exploit them when fighting them.

I have a dominator right now in my fleet and have no trouble sending it up against Radiants. Its not beating them 1v1, but its a 25DP heavy cruiser that can pin it down, not a capital.
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Retry

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2021, 08:32:52 PM »

I get the feeling this claim is going to age about as well as the OP's last "Safety Overrides is Dead" thread.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2021, 08:40:02 PM »

I get the feeling this claim is going to age about as well as the OP's last "Safety Overrides is Dead" thread.

Shh, you're spoiling the fun. Nothing ages worse, yes, but nothing provides as much entertainment as doomsaying before someone's played enough of the latest update.
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Warnoise

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2021, 08:52:33 PM »

I have a dominator right now in my fleet and have no trouble sending it up against Radiants. Its not beating them 1v1, but its a 25DP heavy cruiser that can pin it down, not a capital

I am curious about the loadout you're using because dominator will overflux quickly when firing 2 large weapons+shield tanking.



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Thaago

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2021, 10:13:33 PM »

Currently: - 2 Mk IXs, 1 heavy mauler (other medium is a flak), bunch of vulcans and machine guns, missiles. ITU, hardened shields, built in Heavy Armor and Expanded Racks, vents and caps. I don't have the tech skills currently that boost flux stats/max vents or give a 3rd built in hullmod yet, but I'm planning on it later. I'm considering giving something up to put on automated repair unit, not entirely sure.

The mismatched mauler flak pair is weird because I'm scrounging for weapons and didn't have another mauler (might not have gone mk IX if I had other guns available), but it works well enough. Really its just that the new Mk IX's plus an officer with elite gunnery implants is 700 DPS of accurate long ranged kinetic, and 1900 armor + an armor skill (giving up long ranged 30% damage hurts, but thats what this officer came with) means its a darn good tank for when a capital ship starts to wail on it. Right now its sitting on .57 shields and 14k capacity (which I could boost a little bit with skills or dropping some of the side pd mounts), so its not like the shield is bad, its just not up to high tech standards.

I don't think this is necessarily the "best" build, but its a reasonably cheap brick that hoses down enemy shields and has 15x3 linked Reapers in it (or 3x some other missile, but I happened to have reapers). I assign a lasher to escort it because they are cheap (4dp each) and because I was feeling thematic. It does pretty well protecting its rear: its not like its a very powerful frigate, but just something being there stops enemies from getting a clean attack run in. My other heavy cruiser is a Champion with a Tach lance and I have a HIL Sunder, so the long ranged kinetics from the Dominator are really needed for anti-shield damage.
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Warnoise

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Re: Slow ships are lackluster now
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2021, 06:12:31 AM »

https://ibb.co/j8TL0xv

Here is my build. I dropped heavy armor because it makes the dominator so slow that even cruisers can outflank it. I tried many loadout and i found this to be the most effective against a fast army (anything non low tech).

My problem is that i dont understand the role of the dominator, is it escort? or a brawler? I really want to play with it but every time i face a fast adversary i just buy one way ticket to kite city. Sometimes i get baited by burn driving and a bunch of frigates rush in and ruin my life xD

I know however the dominator shines in a winning battle, but when under pressure, it will just get caught up and die. You will notice that too when you fight against a big armada of fast ships like Conquests and big remnant ordos
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