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Author Topic: Making money in the new version is too easy  (Read 9041 times)

GenericGoose

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2021, 03:48:59 AM »

I don't see how this is an issue. Or any different from last version. I've been trading the same way as before and I made a few million faster. All this means is I have to spend less time grinding trade and can get to other stuff earlier. I would instead like to see other options become more profitable. Bounties and other missions should pay much more. Ive seen 50k for 3 beaten up destroyes, while a guy with 2 pristine conquests and like 7 cruisers is 270k. Makes absolutely no sense.
Doesn't seem like economy has changed much, just that you can buy a lot more in one go, which is good, although it seems prices also rise slower when buying a lot.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 03:57:37 AM by GenericGoose »
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Megas

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2021, 04:01:40 AM »

Base bounties are not worth doing anymore.  Actually, not doing them seems to be a good idea because my game is more than two years old and they are still two sections.  Perfect for keeping their raids weaker (anything that keeps zombie pirates down is good), and I can visit them to raid for supplies and fuel whenever I need it.

Thanks to new targeted raids, I have been raiding for supplies or drugs to sell.

This is probably my first game where I traded my way to riches (although much of it from stealing commodities through raids) after hitting a brick wall with combat (bounties upgrading faster than I can).

What makes trading easier for me is player built for raiding can steal a lot of high-value commodities and sell them for big profit.
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Shadowkiller

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2021, 09:28:20 AM »

While trading is supposed to be insanely profitable in the lore, it's also supposed to be insanely dangerous. I haven't played the new update yet so if this is already a thing my apologies, but I think this issue could be lowered greatly with a simple mechanic. If you're moving planet-sized quantities of highly valuable goods worth millions of credits than you should be a burning Beacon for every enterprising Pirates or enemy state that you've angered. Especially if you decided to skip out on defenses for your trade Fleet. I'm talking about entire Nets of pirates working together to find you, take you down and earn a portion of the incredibly valuable Goods that you're carrying. If you already have a defensive Fleet worth the amount of goods that you're carrying then naturally you wouldn't have a reason to be accosted so easily, but if you're just meming trade at the beginning of the game then you should be harried from one end of the sector to the other for the easy Mark that you are.

In the last version there was already a system for getting Intel on large Caravans travelling from one location to the other, and with the new one I imagine it would be pretty easy to implement something for the AI that targets you when you move large shipments, and bases the strength of the hunters on your own fleet strength vs value of the shipment your carrying. because lets be honest. if your buying enough commodities to support a planet, your not doing that secretly, its just logistically impossible to to move such quantities without anyone finding out.
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Glitzer

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2021, 12:09:40 PM »

If you're moving planet-sized quantities of highly valuable goods worth millions of credits than you should be a burning Beacon for every enterprising Pirates or enemy state that you've angered.

Oh my gosh, I just love this idea, I'd kill for a mod for something like this. Making trading more high risk would be so fun.
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robepriority

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2021, 02:10:17 PM »

It makes a lot more sense than ork-pirates slamming entire junk armadas into core systems constantly.


I mean, nothing wrong with orks, but I don't get that kinda vibe from the pirate lore.

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2021, 02:11:47 PM »

I like the idea of having some pirate fleets spawn and chase you if you buy (or raid for) a large quantity of goods.
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Darloth

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2021, 02:16:26 PM »

We do get warned that a so and so fleet is forming around X or Y planet and heading to Z...

Maybe pirates or other interested parties should indeed be told if you purchase a sufficient quantity of stuff, and then the game should (usually?) mention that your contacts in X market say you've been noticed, it's no longer safe to dock at X for a month or underworld assets will try and steal your stuff (marine roll perhaps), just to prevent player re-docking and storing immediately, and then spawn a couple of fleets with a vague initial idea of the player's location and see what they do.

Would be another interesting interaction, as long as it doesn't trigger too frequently so as to be annoying.

That said, it would also incentivise actually having enough escort ships.
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Bob69Joe

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2021, 02:25:26 PM »

INTERPOL

My first game in .95, I've been doing a bunch of secret things for pirates, dropping packages, deploying spy tech, but otherwise exploring for the factions. I've been saving up a huge nest egg for years now, and I admit I'm a bit nervous if one faction has taken notice of all of those espionage missions. Wake up one morning and see nothing in the bank.

Single Dram fleet btw XDXDXDXD
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xenoargh

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2021, 03:17:08 PM »

I agree that trade via raid / black-market trade appears to be totally broken, lol.  I tried it out, and yeah, it's pretty easy to rack up a million credits. I don't prefer playing this way, so I didn't comment on the last version, but this time I gave it a go, and it took about 6 months of game-time to ramp up to what would have been Escobar in Spaaaaace.

ideas on How To Fix:

1. IRL, governments that strongly suspect you're a massive drug smuggler freeze your assets while investigating. Having something trip when they're finally on to you, where you suddenly lose access to your bank account, might be amusing.

2. Governments who convict you of smuggling take your ill-gotten gains (i.e., the credits aren't just frozen, they're perma-gone). Plus, if they can, they'll arrest you (send a fleet capable of catching and killing your fleet).

3. Criminals you deal with should happily sell you out to annoyed governments, send fleets of mercs to kill you off, or use hackers to steal your money. Docking at a Pirate base, as a high-end criminal, should be pretty gosh-darn dangerous!

The general lack of consequences, so long as you leave your Transponder off and use stealth ships, doesn't make a lot of sense. People would at least, you know, hear about you, because you're arranging million-credit drug deals.  This isn't criminality on such a small scale that it'd just... be ignored, lol. IRL that requires bribes paid, banks to launder the money, rivals that want to turn you in or kill you, and constant danger of being removed by your "associates", because they want the profits for themselves.

Last thoughts:

1. We already have a great example of a criminal money-sponge event. The more money you accrue, by any means, the more of a constant target you should be for Pather fleets that will chase you around and ask for, "donations", heh.  Seriously, if they're allowed to spare me when I was investigating one of their lairs 15LY away from civilization, they should be able to hunt you down when you're in the Core.

2. Transponder Off shouldn't mean that nobody identified you doing business. It just means no fleet or large-scale forces were deployed to intercept you. Unless you're literally flying around space-subs full of drugs, the best way to arrest you is when you're docked and helpless; having to fight your way free from a drug-deal that went bad, or to keep the local police forces from arresting you, sounds like risk and entertainment, and it'd be pretty easy to add in as a mechanic.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 03:39:02 PM by xenoargh »
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AcaMetis

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2021, 03:45:24 PM »

All of this sounds like increasingly roundabout ways to complicate a problem rather than fixing it. If trade being profitable to such a degree is really so unbalancing either put a "tariff" on the black market (phrase it as the aforementioned bribes, etc.) or just remove it entirely. Giving the player a way to make a million credits only to randomly go "someone on Umbra sold you out and now the Diktat has confiscated all your credits and credibility" just seems like a pointless mechanic.

If raiding is the problem than simply expand the consequence that already exists: Those security codes that you can buy from that one bar event? Factions will send retaliation fleets after you if you use them, and attacking those fleets will be considered an attack against that faction if you've got your transponder on whether they attacked you first or not.
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Megas

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2021, 04:10:59 PM »

I raid mostly pirates, the zombie faction who is infamous for raiding (and maybe deciviliizing) everyone else.  I steal supplies, fuel, and drugs from the zombie pirates and sell them to other zombie pirates or the Pathers.  Basically, I out-pirate the pirates.

Black Market plus law enforcement does not mean much when I am mortal enemies with the faction I am preying upon.

I like this easy money when combat is high-risk but low-reward, given punishing losses if your ships explode.
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Darloth

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2021, 06:04:47 PM »

All this talk of freezing assets is also a little disingenuous.  You think credits somehow localized on one world can even be spent on another world, let alone with another faction that is at war?

Given that pirates can pay you in credits, either there is a VERY permissive sector-wide banking agency, or more likely the credits are some sort of electronic encryption system you can store locally on your person but is still guaranteed to be valid.  Presumably something like a shadowrun style certified credstick, likely interacting with all the various datapads we see people use, and redeemable at a number of places around the sector.

Plus, from a game design perspective flat out taking things away from the player is almost never fun, even as a sensible consequence.  Warn them, sure, chase them with things, ok, have bounty hunters hired to hunt them down, make markets inaccessible or more expensive, but it would likely make many people very upset if their hard earned and ill-gotten credits were just removed or frozen.
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GenericGoose

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2021, 11:28:07 PM »

lol people in this thread really hate fun. crime pays in starsector, if you don't want to make money, don't raid and sell only on the open market. ambushes and crackdowns by factions could be interesting though.
also if the credits are freezable I want bank robbery raids!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 11:32:02 PM by GenericGoose »
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Jet Black

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2021, 01:58:02 PM »

Raiding is definitely the most profitable lol. Deficits need to be nerfed a bit and bounty quests etc need a boost. It should even out.

I love that they made the black market more risky though.
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Linnis

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Re: Making money in the new version is too easy
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2021, 02:20:02 PM »

lol people in this thread really hate fun. crime pays in starsector, if you don't want to make money, don't raid and sell only on the open market. ambushes and crackdowns by factions could be interesting though.
also if the credits are freezable I want bank robbery raids!

No, you have the wrong way. We want it to be more fun. The best way to make buck is smuggle black market ***, makes sense. But the fact you can do it endlessly and become the richest man in the sector without any side effects or dangers is silly.

So if while your doing the boring trips back and forth, there are police or pirates trying to catch you, its much more interesting/fun wouldn't you say so?
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