Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SCC]

One thing implied by how good (some) frigates are with wolfpack tactics is that frigates don't lack damage, but rather the PPT to stay on the battlefield.

[intrinsic_parity]

One thing implied by how good (some) frigates are with wolfpack tactics is that frigates don't lack damage, but rather the PPT to stay on the battlefield.

Wolfpack gives major boosts to both damage and PPT, so it's kinda hard to draw that conclusion IMO. Honestly, I think wolfpack could get split into two individual skills for damage and PPT. That would work well in a 3 skill/tier system IMO.

[Megas]

Wolfpack is strong, and conventional fleets almost need frigates, which I dislike (because I am forced to take Leadership skills to make them viable, or at least have enough PPT to last long enough).  The game almost forces frigates on the fleet, just to cap points while having enough PPT to last in fights.  I can exclude most other ship types (destroyers, capitals, carriers) and not miss them, but not having frigates in a conventional fleet will hurt.  I guess Furies can substitute for them, since they are somewhat cheap.

Being forced to get Leadership just for Wolfpack Tactics means I need to give up high Combat or high Industry to make it fit, which I really do not like.  The only reason this is tolerable is because overpowered Doom (with high Combat) bypasses the need for conventional fleet, and thus Leadership.  (I want Combat, Tech, and/or Industry, and I want Industry for Field Repairs and colonies, not Derelict Contingent.)  At least piloting Doom and Ziggurat are fun.  Too bad Ziggurat is a huge hangar queen.

The skill system is not kind if player needs frigates in his fleet, but wants non-Leadership skills more than Leadership skills.

i'd rather see the DP bonus be removed from capture points and the bonuses for the points be more varied and powerful. I.E CR recovery, defensive bonuses, even ammo/missle regen. Lots of possibilities outside of the current system which is always deploy 3-4 frigates to cap for 40+ extra DP.

I like to see DP bonus removed because the current way forces frigates in the fleet (but frigates are not good enough without skills), and if the player can hold those points, the fight was easy enough for your victory to be a foregone conclusion.  If the fight is not trivial, the enemy will steal your points and hold them for the rest of the fight, cutting off your reinforcements, leading to a vicious death spiral once player loses ships.

[Thaago]

Frigates aren't required to capture enough points for a full deploy tbh. Unless I'm mistaken there's always one point right next to the player, and something like a destroyer squadron or the player's battleship can push another point. Frigates are quite useful/powerful depending on which are taken so I think good fleets should have some, but having played without they aren't required.

[Megas]

Frigates aren't required to capture enough points for a full deploy tbh. Unless I'm mistaken there's always one point right next to the player, and something like a destroyer squadron or the player's battleship can push another point. Frigates are quite useful/powerful depending on which are taken so I think good fleets should have some, but having played without they aren't required.

I tried using somewhat slower bigger ships, but what happens is the enemy frigates arrive at about the same time my slower ships do (or a little late, but early enough to distract my cappers and move them off the point), and I usually fail to capture the point.  Instead, either the point remained uncaptured, or the enemy deathball arrives and claims the point first, then I lose the fight due to DP disadvantage.

The only way I could reliably capture points on my side or halfway is to use fast ships, which meant Tempest or phase frigates.  I do not know if Fury is fast enough to be good enough.  I tried Shrikes, but they are too fragile.

[intrinsic_parity]

In my experience, most high tech cruisers/destroyers will reliably cap friendly side points (and capitals like odyssey can also get the job done). You only need frigates to contest enemy side points.

[Locklave]

Haha, Destroyers, funny people.

Who is using Destroyers when Frigates stole their role on the battlefield and do it cheaper and better? Carrier destroyers don't count.

[Draba]

AFAIK there are 2 common layouts, 2 close/2 far or 1 close, 2 middle, 1 far.
For close practically anything is good enough, for middle CM+Medusa/Shrike are plenty if you have no phase and aren't piloting something fast.
For 2/2 if the 2 on player side aren't both comms is the hairy one. I go with an Odyssey for 1 and the other fast ships (with CM+officers) for the other. One of those should be easy(-ish) to take as a 3rd.
Or if you want to be on the safe side you can just get 2 kites with injector+SO, 4 DP total for ~300/350 speed with CM and no officer.

Haha, Destroyers, funny people.

Who is using Destroyers when Frigates stole their role on the battlefield and do it cheaper and better? Carrier destroyers don't count.

Medusa/Shrike are still great all around, Sunder probably best cheap fire support. Hammerhead/new Brawler is a tossup, speed is very good but so are feeder+extra PD/OP/range.
XIV Enforcer is kinda decent, just don't like the way AI handles burn drive and being missile-heavy.

Really not convinced wolfpack is the end-all-be-all, plenty of no frigate/no redacted weapon fleets work and murderize the worst enemies just fine.
Not counting Zig had the easiest time consistently avoiding losses with various cruisers+Medusas, the only frigate far above anything else is the Monitor IMO.

[intrinsic_parity]

Haha, Destroyers, funny people.

Who is using Destroyers when Frigates stole their role on the battlefield and do it cheaper and better? Carrier destroyers don't count.

I think this is only true if you take wolfpack tactics, otherwise destroyers hold up better in endgame because of PPT (and frigates having 20% less damage without wolfpack).

[torbes]

AFAIK there are 2 common layouts, 2 close/2 far or 1 close, 2 middle, 1 far.
For close practically anything is good enough, for middle CM+Medusa/Shrike are plenty if you have no phase and aren't piloting something fast.
For 2/2 if the 2 on player side aren't both comms is the hairy one. I go with an Odyssey for 1 and the other fast ships (with CM+officers) for the other. One of those should be easy(-ish) to take as a 3rd.
Or if you want to be on the safe side you can just get 2 kites with injector+SO, 4 DP total for ~300/350 speed with CM and no officer.

Haha, Destroyers, funny people.

Who is using Destroyers when Frigates stole their role on the battlefield and do it cheaper and better? Carrier destroyers don't count.

Medusa/Shrike are still great all around, Sunder probably best cheap fire support. Hammerhead/new Brawler is a tossup, speed is very good but so are feeder+extra PD/OP/range.
XIV Enforcer is kinda decent, just don't like the way AI handles burn drive and being missile-heavy.

Really not convinced wolfpack is the end-all-be-all, plenty of no frigate/no redacted weapon fleets work and murderize the worst enemies just fine.
Not counting Zig had the easiest time consistently avoiding losses with various cruisers+Medusas, the only frigate far above anything else is the Monitor IMO.

Dusa is solid, sunder is hit or miss survivability, endgame hammerhead either needs to be SO or 1 hvd/1mauler because at 700 range he's gonna get eaten by larger enemies/phase ships. funny cause HH was always so fun in previous versions.

honestly outside of dusa and maybe shrike i feel like most destroyers now are too fragile and too slow in the current meta, they're not terrible at escorting a cap ship but for the DP cost i'd rather have tempests/omens/monitors harassing or escorting and keep my cruisers and above clumped around a cap/defend point.

not surprising that huge buffs to frigates place upward pressure on destroyer class.

[Locklave]

Haha, Destroyers, funny people.

Who is using Destroyers when Frigates stole their role on the battlefield and do it cheaper and better? Carrier destroyers don't count.

I think this is only true if you take wolfpack tactics, otherwise destroyers hold up better in endgame because of PPT (and frigates having 20% less damage without wolfpack).

Why would you take the other choice? I mean it results in having a smaller logistics footstep, less Crew/supplies/fuel/repair time/sensor profile in addition to the combat bonuses. PPT on the high tech frigates, the brokenly OP ones which is all of them at this point thanks to power creep, get double or more.

I mean why would you even take Coordinated Maneuvers over Wolf pack? Both skills favors frigates anyways.  I guess destroyers might be valid if you didn't take anything from the leadership tree, but that seem silly since it's just a 2 point investment.

It's funny now that I think about it, why is Wolfpack tactics tier 2 and not tier 5? Name any other skill that has this massive an impact on playstyle and power of a any type of ships fleetwide. Even the tech tier 5 don't have this sweeping an impact on the game. Why is this skill the only one of this type without CP limits or maxes with diminished returns like Carrier Group/Fighter Uplink or Auxiliary Support which Alex deemed acceptable to limit it to uselessly low maxes before huge drops in effectiveness.

Alex is pushing a single playstyle to the detriment of others in this patch and the skills/ships/logistics changes all push you hard in that one direction.

Frigate based fleet
Small numbers of fighter wings
All high tech ships

Anyone doing anything different will be punished by harder gameplay and less effective skills. This is the game now.

[SCC]

Why is this skill the only one of this type without CP limits or maxes with diminished returns like Carrier Group/Fighter Uplink or Auxiliary Support which Alex deemed acceptable to limit it to uselessly low maxes before huge drops in effectiveness.

It works only for officers, like Derelict Contingent, which is the limiting factor. You get 8 officers base, 10 with a skill, and mercenaries are sustainable only if you get 2-3 of them (assuming you even find that many with good skills).

[Megas]

Two points for Wolfpack is too many when I already have fifteen planned elsewhere.

[shoi]

Why would you take the other choice? I mean it results in having a smaller logistics footstep, less Crew/supplies/fuel/repair time/sensor profile in addition to the combat bonuses. PPT on the high tech frigates, the brokenly OP ones which is all of them at this point thanks to power creep, get double or more.

I mean why would you even take Coordinated Maneuvers over Wolf pack? Both skills favors frigates anyways.  I guess destroyers might be valid if you didn't take anything from the leadership tree, but that seem silly since it's just a 2 point investment.

It's funny now that I think about it, why is Wolfpack tactics tier 2 and not tier 5? Name any other skill that has this massive an impact on playstyle and power of a any type of ships fleetwide. Even the tech tier 5 don't have this sweeping an impact on the game. Why is this skill the only one of this type without CP limits or maxes with diminished returns like Carrier Group/Fighter Uplink or Auxiliary Support which Alex deemed acceptable to limit it to uselessly low maxes before huge drops in effectiveness.

Alex is pushing a single playstyle to the detriment of others in this patch and the skills/ships/logistics changes all push you hard in that one direction.

Frigate based fleet
Small numbers of fighter wings
All high tech ships

Anyone doing anything different will be punished by harder gameplay and less effective skills. This is the game now.

(AI) Wolfpack'd Frigates are still going to get popped like an overripe pimple when facing larger ships with officers of a similar quality. Tempest/Omen/Time Dilation Ship I can't remember the name of are exceptions, not the rule.  That said, the skill choice itself feels like a no-brainer when the other option is coordinated manuevers

[Locklave]

Why would you take the other choice? I mean it results in having a smaller logistics footstep, less Crew/supplies/fuel/repair time/sensor profile in addition to the combat bonuses. PPT on the high tech frigates, the brokenly OP ones which is all of them at this point thanks to power creep, get double or more.

I mean why would you even take Coordinated Maneuvers over Wolf pack? Both skills favors frigates anyways.  I guess destroyers might be valid if you didn't take anything from the leadership tree, but that seem silly since it's just a 2 point investment.

It's funny now that I think about it, why is Wolfpack tactics tier 2 and not tier 5? Name any other skill that has this massive an impact on playstyle and power of a any type of ships fleetwide. Even the tech tier 5 don't have this sweeping an impact on the game. Why is this skill the only one of this type without CP limits or maxes with diminished returns like Carrier Group/Fighter Uplink or Auxiliary Support which Alex deemed acceptable to limit it to uselessly low maxes before huge drops in effectiveness.

Alex is pushing a single playstyle to the detriment of others in this patch and the skills/ships/logistics changes all push you hard in that one direction.

Frigate based fleet
Small numbers of fighter wings
All high tech ships

Anyone doing anything different will be punished by harder gameplay and less effective skills. This is the game now.

(AI) Wolfpack'd Frigates are still going to get popped like an overripe pimple when facing larger ships with officers of a similar quality. Tempest/Omen/Time Dilation Ship I can't remember the name of are exceptions, not the rule.  That said, the skill choice itself feels like a no-brainer when the other option is coordinated manuevers

Hyperion the cruiser frigate & Scarab are included in those non pop ships too. Hell even the Wolf and it's the weakest of that lot doesn't pop much. That's a hell of a lot of exceptions. The phase ships die more then the Wolfs vs Remnant, I got a mixed fleet of these ships in an open game right now farming them (no mods) and the Wolfs are filling in for the better stuff in the meantime, Brilliant heavy fights see way more phase deaths. As I tab back into the game seeing the only ship dying in auto control was an Afflictor lol.

Everything high tech frigates. So ya what I said is basically the rule, unless we are pretending I meant to include high tech civilian shuttles. High tech don't pop.

Try it with Low or Midline frigates and suddenly they become costly battles. So as I said, a very specific playstyle is being jammed down our throats.