Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]

Author Topic: A Professional Critique Of Story Points  (Read 5381 times)

Badger

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2021, 05:55:52 AM »

I am playing with Ruthless Sector now and I find it much better. It completely guts the commission to about 10% of the original value. You have to actually pay attention to efficiency and can no longer roll around with a massive fleet doing not much of anything while continuing to accumulate cash (at least until you build up colonies, which I hope will be harder than before, at least for a while, with the 'Starfarer' Nex setting).

This makes you have to actually think about income sources. In fairness it should really be the default setting, and massive paychecks for nothing should be optional easy mode.
Logged

AdmiralWarron

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2021, 08:25:26 AM »

My impression of story points and something that most of OP complaints have in common is that they are way too common and used for things that are insanely mundane. They would be much more interesting if each story point was rare and meaningful.
You start with one and get another at the end of a long sidequest, one point for winning your first major battle, for getting the first max pop colony and so on. Their use should be very impactful, something you have to really consider. Handing them out like candy to every filler frigate and every officer just feels bad.
Some examples that would be cool:
- Upgrading a colony with a death star for impenetrable colony defense
- Spending a point to find a pristine forge
- Sabotaging an enemy fleet to have low cr and very high chance for salvage
- Guaranteeing a blueprint of your choice
- Full skill selection and unique buffs for your prodigy officer.
- Spending a point to get welcoming with a faction of your choice

All of these can have short stories to make it less space magic and more "your character does this badass thing nobody else can".
At the moment, there is almost no opportunity cost to them and for something that's supposed to be a major plot point of your story, is just wasted potential.
Logged

Ad Astra

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
  • Are Reapers strawberry flavored?
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2021, 10:43:35 AM »

I find it somewhat funny that complaints currently are either that the game is too easy, because of story points, or too hard, because of some balance issues and Remnants.

I wonder if Alex is going to change SP costs of various actions, such as having the "retreat without combat" cost increase as your fleet size increases, or bigger or rarer ships requiring more SPs to recover, e.g. ships require 1 SP per 10 DP to recover.

Its pretty much hilarious how threads saying the exact opposite sometimes end up sitting one next to the other, poor Alex lol, talk about confusing messages.

I think it might be a matter of mental approach, if you take it like some sort of roguelike/lite, then you are kind of expecting something even harder and considerably more unforgiving, while if you are expecting a more standard sandbox RPG then sometimes the game will sneakily stab you in the liver economically wise. Not every mission involves viable profit and that's something a person who isn't used to more punishing games won't ever expect.

Outside of the campaign aspect, combat leaps around in difficulty a lot so that's kind of what happens with difficulty perception. Expectations weigh here as well, do you expect to be able to defeat every opposing fleet at some point? Or was that never in your objectives in the first place? That sort of thing.

Logged
You can park your spaceship anywhere you want if you get along with pirates

Badger

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2021, 12:44:13 PM »

Its pretty much hilarious how threads saying the exact opposite sometimes end up sitting one next to the other, poor Alex lol, talk about confusing messages.

I don't envy independent game designers  :). From what I know so far, he is doing a great job. Different people will have different preferences, and the core mechanics are sound and fun, which is what matters ultimately. People complaining about this or that wouldn't bother if they didn't think the game was worth their time, and it can be modded pretty much to preference anyway.

@Admiral Warron - I think this suggestion for 'story points' is pretty decent but I wouldn't have anything directly affecting combat like the 'sabotage' one. It just feels like a cheat button, which it basically is. Similarly with the 'item find', genie in a bottle stuff again - unless there is some pretty convincing lore story behind it. That is another thing with 'story points', there isn't any story  ;D.

Personally, if they had to be there, I would have them ultra-limited and do very major things - like some kind of unique one-off structure or a one-time unlock of some 'ultimate' skill or whatever and give you like three for the game after having to complete some missions that make sense to get them. Failing that and in the meantime I think they detract from the game.
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3075
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2021, 12:50:35 PM »

Alex's intention with them was, as far as I know, to let the player do some cool stuff while keeping it on some sort of a limit, and decreasing the need to save scum by letting you spend a story point to get away with some stuff. I doubt Alex will take story points in the direction you want.

CanaldoVoid

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2021, 03:11:33 PM »

Well that was an interesting read.
I agree with 100% in the OP
Logged

DownTheDrain

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2021, 06:35:33 PM »

Good thing the OP warned about being very wordy and very opinionated. They sure delivered on both of those and the colors certainly didn't help.

Personally I don't feel story points devalue or circumvent any part of the game I care about but we're clearly very different players. The fact that quicksaving and reloading was proposed as a valid alternative approach makes it obvious that there's not enough common ground for any meaningful discussion.

My only current issue with the story point mechanic is the proper balance. Making a skill of my character elite should probably be worth a lot more than increasing the chances of an agent's mission or escaping some fleet because I failed to kite properly.
Logged

prestidigitation

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2021, 11:01:03 AM »

I like story points. They’re a limited use alternative to save scumming that you can use to boost your fleet or economy or officers. I usually only have one in the bank for get out of jail scenarios but I have infinite save scums.

I also don’t get all the guff about salvage. Most ships ARE destroyed anyway and only a couple are in the extra story point pool, many of which aren’t worth grabbing anyway. Ships are pretty cheap and you can easily acquire expensive ones after a few missions of rep grinding. I like that I can pick up some weirdies from my enemies. Yes you can salvage capitals but a) how good are they really b) you can salvage them the standard way too usually c) there are way better uses for a story point by mid game.



dodge-the-storms-or-hold-s mini-game.

Dodge?! The storms?

Why would you dodge the storms when you could play storm ping pong to cut 20 days off a 30 day trip!

I actively seek out the storms and spent a good bit of resources on speeding up my capitals so I could continue to ping pong them across space at ludicrous speed.

I mean sure my crew must hate me but screw them these are my ships and if I want to scream through the skies like a bat out of hell then I sure as heck will.

Bottom line, storms are meant to be rammed not dodged
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2352
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2021, 11:09:19 AM »

Storms cost hundreds of supplies and leave your ships unprepared for combat. It can be worthwhile to aim for storms in some situations and it can definitely not be in others.
Logged

prestidigitation

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: A Professional Critique Of Story Points
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2021, 12:38:26 PM »

Storms cost hundreds of supplies and leave your ships unprepared for combat. It can be worthwhile to aim for storms in some situations and it can definitely not be in others.

Counterpoint:  ;D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-J03yCE15rg
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6]