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Author Topic: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again  (Read 4992 times)

Ad Astra

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2021, 10:52:57 AM »

Vigilance/Venture with 4x missiles would be interesting... currently a Vigilance with Salamander Pods can lay down pretty decent distraction fire because FMR ignores its cooldown. Having 4x ammo built in would give it 48 harpoons, which is a lot for a frigate. I suppose they would only come 4 at a time and the ship doesn't really have any more offense? I would definitely try to spam Vigilances with that many Harpoons and see how it goes.

Forget the Vigilance! You people with your missile numbers aren't seeing the bigger picture!
What we need is a Conquest (P) where every single mount is replace by a missile mount! Put shield busters and finishers everywhere, add a reckless officer with missile specialization, and laugh maniacally as the battlefield lights up like a christmas tree.

P.D. Harpoons are just reapers with training wheels (fite me irl) Jokes aside they are actually useful in AI hands which makes them wonderful and a staple of any missile heavy AI build.
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Sutopia

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2021, 12:59:17 PM »

How about making the autoforge (ship) require a decent charge up time and disabling weapons meanwhile?
It essentially channels all energy to pump out more missiles.
The flux generated will also prevent it from utilizing... oh, we need to change that to constant flux during charge up so it prevents zero-flux speed bonus. That said you wouldn’t want to press F in the middle of a fight as the text suggests.
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Amazigh

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2021, 05:40:23 PM »

I agree that while it does play into the missile boat role that the gryphon has, Autoforge is boring.

Thinking about various ships that fill the "missile boat" role (the clipper from seeker as a good example of an alternate implementation of autoforge that is more interesting, but still kinda boring imo) and i can't think of a way to implement an ammo replenishment system, like autoforge and have it actually be fun and engaging to use.

Making note that with the new missile skill giving +100% ammo, it's not uncommon to see gryphons not run out of ammo for their large/medium mounts in even some moderately large battles, so you might not even have a reason to get to use Autoforge in a battle!

While vanilla fast missile racks might seem like an idea for a replacement system, it having 3 charges means you'd be able to launch 4 volleys from the frontal large missile mount one after the other. Which would be obscene.


If I was to propose anything, then it'd be this: give the Gryphon a hullmod that grants passive but slow missile regeneration, and replace the system with a version of fast missile racks that doesn't store multiple charges and just has a cooldown.
This would give the Gryphon battlefield sustain, by merit of regenerating ammo, and a shipsystem that is interactive and will see actual use. (if the gryphon was to get passive missile regeneration it would open options up so you could even replace the system with mjets, AAF or some other non-missile focused system)
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KDR_11k

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2021, 02:59:39 AM »

How about making the autoforge (ship) require a decent charge up time and disabling weapons meanwhile?
It essentially channels all energy to pump out more missiles.
The flux generated will also prevent it from utilizing... oh, we need to change that to constant flux during charge up so it prevents zero-flux speed bonus. That said you wouldn’t want to press F in the middle of a fight as the text suggests.

Sounds basically like the autoforge used e.g. in Legacy of Arkgneisis.
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Kanjejou

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2021, 05:11:08 PM »

Does the autoforge reload in multibattles? So it allow to get more missiles if you retreat often? no?
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some guy

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2021, 12:21:48 AM »

my thoughts on it is make it similar to the boss version just with a longer cool down diminishing returns like an increased cool down or less missiles and a supply cost of some sort boring yeah.
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Megas

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2021, 05:12:09 AM »

My complaint with Missile Autoforge is it was better to have no ship system (or flares) and a built-in hullmod than it is to have this.  I could not care less if the system is "boring" as long as it is powerful and effective, but the implementation is clunky and inelegant.  However, System Expertise interacts with the system.

With Systems Expertise in play, Missile Autoforge has a point instead of being streamlined into a hullmod or something.  It can have two charges.

Of course, System Expertise is one of the (three) skills that made Doom a godship.
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some guy

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2021, 05:43:54 AM »

My complaint with Missile Autoforge is it was better to have no ship system (or flares) and a built-in hullmod than it is to have this.  I could not care less if the system is "boring" as long as it is powerful and effective, but the implementation is clunky and inelegant.  However, System Expertise interacts with the system.

With Systems Expertise in play, Missile Autoforge has a point instead of being streamlined into a hullmod or something.  It can have two charges.

Of course, System Expertise is one of the (three) skills that made Doom a godship.

i wasnt calling the system boring but rather what i was proposing... guess i need to work on my communication skills...again.
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Wapno

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Re: Make Missile Autoforge Great Again
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2021, 07:08:30 PM »

I've already brought the issue with Missile Autoforge up ages ago. The fact that it comes back like a boomerang only comes to show that there is indeed a problem with it.

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=12690.0

Bottom line, current Missile Autoforge is worse version of Expanded Missile Racks tied to a button. Worse, because not only it generates mass amounts of flux when activated, but also won't double all of your missiles unless you've already spent all slots down to zero. It is boring, and most importantly, unfun.

Honestly, the ship would probably fare better with Missile Autoforge being transformed into a passive built-in hullmod. At least this would free up the ship system slot, allowing for something more usable and fun to be put there. If Fast Missile Racks is too much, then I'd even be happy with Active Flare Launcher or Maneuvering Thrusters. Anything instead of a "ship system" that can be used once. A system you use once per battle is practically no system at all.

I kind of agree that this is an issue but i don't think your solution is that great. Just doubling the number of missiles isn't all that interesting or unique.

As such:

Missile Auto-forge: The ship may replenish missiles between engagements and so will replenish up to 75% of missiles fired in the prior engagement. Additionally a ship with an auto-forge requires less 25% supplies to deploy due to it being able to more efficiently produce munitions from supplies. Because missiles may be easily renovated using the forge adding or removing missile systems in space has a significantly lower impact on overall ship readiness as compared to normal.

I.E. i would make it a strategic, rather than tactical, system. This lets the griffin be quite unique in how it can be utilized on the battlefield, being able to achieve multiple engagements and being able to refit to attack specific enemies and exploit specific weaknesses as necessary.

While this would reduce the overall power of the Griffin in each individual fight it would make it a lot more tenable to utilize strategically. The Griffin could be then given a different ship system like Maneuvering Jets or Decoy Flare's

With all respect sir, you're trying to make it even more uninteresting. Why would I care what happens to the missiles between engagements if 90% of my fights end in a single battle? 25% supplies bonus is nothing cool as well. I can't imagine it ever being a deciding factor in picking this ship at any point in the game.

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