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[Kpop]

Its something that has come up in many threads and I still don't understand why people like certain ships that I wouldn't have in my fleets in my nightmares. From least to most understandable:

-The Mora

It screams of a ship that is trying to do too many different things at once with it's relatively low OP limit. 2x medium missile slots that would be foolish to not make use of, 8x small ballistic slots that could be used for railguns or point defense, with a whopping 3 flight decks; and the missiles and fighters both being prime candidates for help with hullmods like missile racks or expanded deck crew. All of that OP cost leaves you far from a complete package no matter what strength of the ship you want to prioritize. If you put a focus on missiles, ballistics, or fighters, it severely hampers the utilization of both of the others.

What is the role this ship is supposed to play? It is a carrier, but it does not play to the strengths of any typical carrier, like the Heron. The Heron has limited emplacements which are in practice only good for PD as expected of a dedicated carrier, it doesn't want for them either when considering its role. In return it is allowed to specialize in what it's class of ship is expected to and most of them are: a fighter/bomber carrier. It is also much faster, with almost double the speed of the Mora allowing it to evade threats while projecting force where it wants much better than the Mora due to the Heron's ship system and emphasis on its fighters and bombers.

The only thing I can think of as a strength of the Mora is its durability. It can soak damage on the frontline better than any other carrier and be stuck in with any heavyweight cruisers and capitals one is fielding and hold its own. However....

There is a ship that already exists that actually can achieve what the Mora wants to do - the Legion. Sure, its in a higher weight class but compared to what a Legion can do, pound for pound, it falls flat. The Legion pulls its weight whereas the Mora does not. A legion can put out respectable firepower while also still being a useful carrier with the OP to spare, also while still being a capable frontliner like the Mora. Especially the XIV legion which is everything the original is but also a powerful missile boat.

-The Lasher

A frigate with 5x light ballistic slots and AAF. A little feisty bulldog worth of trouble. I'm not going to even attempt to compare it to the Tempest, that's just unfair. Compare it to the Brawler.

The Brawler has no AAF and is 20 units slower than the lasher. In exchange, has across the board better flux stats, durability, and has medium mounts for weapons that can punch much harder against targets the light weapons on a Lasher couldn't scratch.

The only use case of the Lasher that I could see as being superior to the Brawler is when you are chasing a retreating fleet and need mobile, high dps but low damage ships that can chew through retreating cargo and fuel ships quickly.

-The Shrike

It's not as outlandish as the first two compared to similar choices, because it does fit a general all-rounder profile. However, anything it can do is overshadowed by 3 notable ships in its weight class. The Hammerhead, Sunder, and Enforcer. The Hammerhead is very versatile and can dish out damage much better than a Shrike, while being slightly less survivable in terms of speed and shield stats. The Sunder is a similar case, with emphasis on energy instead of ballistic weapons.

The Enforcer fills a different niche than the Shrike, but does do it's job of heavy firepower and respectable durability much better than the Shrike can hope to do. It is very slow and has poor flux stats compared to the Shrike, but can really put the pain downrange when it is in range and has decent hull and armor to back it up(also pretty cheap).

[Thaago]

I'm a big fan of the Shrike because I treat it as a super frigate in all but designation.

It has the same burn as a frigate, it costs the same as a frigate (actually its cheaper than many elite frigates), and it has the supply cost of an elite frigate. It has frigate armor/hull, but strong destroyer shields (only second to Medusa). Its firepower is about 1.5x most frigates (with a very flexible gun set), with guns falling significantly short of Sunders and Hammerheads, but significantly better missile load. Peak performance time is 'high tech' standard destroyer at 300: a bit shorter than Hammerhead/Sunders, but far longer than frigates.

So despite having the Destroyer class label, they are basically shield tank super frigates that have tons of upsides: long PPT for mid game fights, can mount converted hangar if doing D mod reduction + CH spam, destroyer grade ITU, extra large missile load. The only downsides are that they pay more for hullmods, so its best to go extra light on them, and they take 2 fuel/ly instead of 1.

And best of all they are getting a buff next version! Muahahaha my Shrikes shall blot out the sun (until they accidentally plasma burn into it and die).

[Retry]

People like (or loathe) the Mora for its heavy armor and its damper system makes for a ship that's surprisingly resistant to damage sometimes

(By people, I mean people that are not me.  Short range + Slow + anemic flux stats + minimal flux budget = big no from me.)

Lasher has 2 or 3 turret mounts for PD.  Brawler has 0, front shield coverage insufficient to protect itself from Salamanders, and presents a larger frontal profile that's significantly easier to hit.  Forget the rest of the loadout, 2 Salamander missiles on a Lasher alone are enough to ensure its domination 1v1 against a Brawler.

Shrike's ok, cheap but overshadowed by Shrike (P) which can add a ballistic weapon.  Should be better in 0.95 with various energy weapon enhancements and +5 OP buff.

[King Alfonzo]

-The Mora

I understand that the Legion is all this ship is and better, but the key problem is that it's bigger and more expensive. Further, you can deploy more Moras than you can deploy Legions I often find in a single battle. The Mora is a lot more accessible, and while you can't really put too fancy stuff on it, you can usually come up with a good package to turn it into a midgame fleet anchor. Just throw heavy armour and reinforced bulkheads on it, put some low-OP weapons and fighters on it, and it'll soak up a fair amount of firepower leaving you to pull back and vent. That's something I should point out for low-tech ships, they love having low OP weapons on them. ANyway, as a mid-game fleet anchor its got its niche, but its very useful in that niche.

-The Lasher

The Lasher is more of a fencer to the Brawlers stubbornness. You're supposed to come in, activate AAF, try and kill the enemy, then back out once the AAF has worn off. As you said before, its brilliant at pursuit, but it's also pretty good at catching out other frigates (When it has Safety Overrides), somewhat good at providing fire support against bigger targets (With all kinetic builds), and in a pinch as a somewhat poor PD boat for when you can't attain either an Omen or a Condor. I often find it's a fun ship to fly with SO, and I get good use out of it vs other frigates, but on the whole it's usefulness falls off as you move to bigger or better ships. Then again, this happens with a lot of ships anyway. Regardless, it's incredibly useful in the early game, and that's its niche.

-The Shrike

As Thaago said before, this isn't actually a destroyer. It's a frigate in destroyer clothes. It's also a lot of mobile than the Hammerhead and Enforcer, and it's very good at 'pouncing' on overloaded enemies with it's burst jets. The problem is the kind of build you can stick on a Shrike is admittedly limited; you practically need to put Sabot pods on the medium missile, and a high-alpha weapon (mining blaster, phase lance or heavy blaster) on the medium energy. This one-two punch sort of build works wonders against just about anything, but it seems like its the only build that syngerises with its ship system. Long Range builds don't work, because the system moves the ship forward and into enemy fire. You can't stick hardened shields and expect it to survive, because it doesn't have the flux for it. Consequently making a generalist build for Shrikes is just not practical, you need to give it a high-alpha damage build, and watch it clip frigates and destroyers, and that's its niche.

I guess the jist of what I'm saying is that a lot of ships in Starsector are very niche in how they work, and work well within that niche. A lot of people like to use aggressive fleets, which is why they like the Lasher and Shrike - both ships profit from an aggressive playstyle, pushing against the enemy at all times and overwhelming the ships so fast that you don't have the shields pressured too much. Further, these ships are often more accessible than their essentially upgraded derivatives the Medusa and Tempest, so they see more use in early game fleets. Some people prefer to have a slower playstyle where they grind down and outlast the enemy, and thus a Mora will enter into their fleets pretty much as soon as they can afford it until they can get a Legion. So while you may not like the ships for your particular playstyle at particular parts of the game, others might like them for their circumstances.

[Golde]

I feel ya with the mora. I really wish it had a bit more op so it can be decked out into a flying bunker instead of the current bonerfied flying brick scantily cladded with cheap lpcs..

[FooF]

The Mora simply follows the Low Tech doctrine to a T and as odd as it may seem, it fulfills its role very well. Within the context of its doctrine, if you have a carrier, you can't let it be the weak link. There are no "fragile" ships in the Low Tech doctrine: each one is tough enough to go headlong into the front lines. High Tech outmaneuvers, Midline outguns, Low-Tech outlasts (in theory). For a carrier to be nearly as difficult to take down as a heavy cruiser, that kind of tells you what the priority is for that doctrine. Personally, I'd much rather face 2-3 Herons than 2-3 Moras. At least I know that if I can get to the Herons, they go down pretty quickly. The Moras...you have to pound on them. All this being said, I rarely use Moras. Their logistical profile is terrible and they don't contribute to fighter critical-mass as well as Herons or Drovers. But, they're a good mid-sized fleet anchor.

I'm not too keen on the Lasher, to be honest. I'd take a Centurion over a Lasher about any day. The Lasher is a high-risk/high-reward platform and Frigates already pop easily enough without any additional encouragement. As a hyper-specialized Kinetics gunboat, I can get behind using Lashers supporting bigger ships but I just don't think they contribute enough killing power to be generalists (which is generally my M.O.).

The Shrike has always been a love/hate relationship with me. I *get* it, but I don't like it. When I've used them, they tend to survive pretty well but I don't particularly like piloting them. They don't hit hard enough for me and their ship system is just user-unfriendly enough that getting out of a bad scrape can be difficult. Like Thaago said, they are super-frigates and should be treated as such. I love the idea of the Shrike but I don't find them to be very effective in practice.

[Thaago]

Chiming in on the Lasher: I feel like its pretty mediocre because of its low speed and meh shield, but because of the AAF becomes an unholy killer with SO.

I don't particularly like using Moras because they are defensive carriers, and I prefer offensive fleets. I kind of hate fighting them though: they soak up a lot of firepower and time, and just keep spamming out fighters, and fire annoyingly accurate reaper salvos right when I least expect it.

For Shrike loadouts, I've been playing around with them and have had success using missiles other than Sabots as long as the Shrike is not alone. Dueling Shrikes Sabots are king! But a Harpoon Pod or Typhoon Reaper brings a lot of 'kill', if there is enough local pressure from the Shrike or other ships to make an opportunity.

Heavy Blaster looks like the ideal gun for a Shrike and in a lot of ways it is, but its low efficiency does severely limit the ship's anti-shield effectiveness. Pulse Laser + AM Blaster is a pretty good alternative: It has the alpha strike King Alfonzo was talking about in the blaster shot (which also cracks armor), and has 440 DPS vs the Heavy blaster's 500, but at only 479 flux instead of 720, which is actually below the Shrike's budget! The OP cost is higher, but its reasonably to add an ion cannon for disabling or an IR pulse for anti-shield on top and still be pretty far below the flux cost of a heavy blaster. OP budget does get tight with that fit though. (Pulse + IR + AMB = 24 OP for 592 DPS for 632 FPS, 50,100, and 1400 shot size for armor penetration.)

Oh and i almost forgot: the AM Blaster needs to be linked to the Pulse laser so it fire all the time, and tested in sim to make sure its really firing.

[Serenitis]

Mora
A carrier brick that can happily sit on the front line so it's fighters don't have far to travel to rearm etc.
Since it is mostly going to be getting in faces, it's entire armament can be heavily biased towards kinetic PD to tear down shields. This has an added bonus that it's light on both OP and flux requirements, so the Mora often has lots of OP to spare for better fighters or even hull mods.
Two medium missiles also represents a fairly decent amount of potential.

It also has a high enough burn speed that it doesn't slow down most fleets. And the only real downside of it is the low battle speed, which apart from being mildly frustrating tends to make retreating a Mora something of an aspirational concept.
The only thing I actively dislike about the Mora is that it has a small ballistic hardpoint on the front. On a brick that barely qualifies as mobile.
That thing stays empty.

Lasher
I feel like the Lasher is something that deserves more love.
It's a good ship that can "punch up" remarkably well (it's been described as a "disgusting little monster" for good reason), and makes for an amazing early game flagship or wingman. But you'll harldy ever see one in that context unless the RNG drops one in your lap early enough.

The main issue with the Lasher is it's less than stellar battle speed.
In the early game it doesn't matter too much as almost every hostile fleet you encounter will be brave enough to attack you, so they're always coming to you anyway.
But once you progress a little and hostiles are more cautious, the Lasher's lack of speed will make using it frustrating as it just can't keep up and gets kited by faster enemies.
And while it can attack bigger targets better than most other frigates, it still struggles with heavy shields & armour and it simply doesn't have the PPT (or durability) to waste on a slugging match.
Even when you keep frigates in your fleet solely for pursuit battles, the poor Lasher just can't move as fast as Wolves or Tempests and becomes a liability.
You can use Saftey Overrides to give you that speed, but you're trading off the already low peak time.

Imo, it would be nice if there was an option to start with a Lasher.

Shrike
The Shrike is just two frigates precariously balanced one on top of the other wearing a trenchcoat.
All it takes is a little nudge and it falls over.
That medium missile though, can give it a fairly big hit.

I'm not a huge fan of the Shrike. I will use them if I have nothing else, but it wouldn't be my first choice as they're a little too fragile for my taste.
And of all the ships, Shrike is one I find particularly difficult to outfit in a manner I am satisfied with.
Whenever I do use a Shrike it will almost always be a few battles of me trying various things and being disappointed, followed by just turning it into an EMP support ship until something better comes along.
It "feels" like it struggles for OP as it can't afford to both fit a decent weapon and the vents to support it without compromising other things too much.
Shrike really doesn't cope well when you don't have access to everything and have to make do with whatever junk you can find.

[Grievous69]

Mora

To me it seems like a Venture but much more useful, I'm still not a huge fan because of its logistic stats and kinda low OP amount. But at the end of the day it's a decent frontline ship, it's so obnoxiously hard to kill it's sometimes hard to believe it's 20 DP (average cruiser). Yes you can't really fit good fighters or weapons but if you want survivability and bang for your buck, it's a cool ship. And yeah once you get to capitals Legion is always a better choice.

Lasher

I don't remember the last time I used them and they DIDN'T have SO. As others mentioned it's pretty slow for a frigate, and in pursuit scenarios it can't do much without SO. It's a pretty neat early game flagship, but I never use them past early game when I have much better alternatives that last longer.

Shrike

Ah yes the second most controversial ship in the game (right after Conquest). It seems there are others like me who like the idea behind it, but hate it in practice. And it was somewhat wrong to compare it to destroyers you mentioned since they have completely different roles and stats. To me it's basically a Tempest before you can acquire a Tempest. The thing that bothers me the most is how suicidal it is, I can't wait to see how the Plasma Burn and Burn Drive AI changes will make a difference. OP buff was nice because it really struggles with builds, they're always that feeling that you need a tiny bit more to make it "ok". And yes the final problem is its need for elite weapons (every example build mentioned here used some sort of elite guns), which is hilarious since it's a fat frigate. Feels kinda wasteful to equip them with such rare weapons when they die like flies. Yet even with the new buffs I suspect I'll be using the new Fury more since it's basically a tougher Shrike, seems more like up my alley ship.

[Maeleth]

Cannot tell you anything about Mora since I consider this ship a waste of supplies. I'd rather pick Condor than this pile of garbage. The only selling point of this ship is durability, although by the time you can afford lugging around a burn 8 bathtub with you, enemies would probably have capitals. Good luck surviving at front lines against big boys!

Lasher is a perfect pack of speed, firepower and durability for a low, low price both in credits and DP. Unlike Brawler it probably would not die to a random missile. Unlike Brawler it has an option of retreating due to having better speed and maneuverability. Definitely the best alternative to Omen/Tempest, I always have a couple of those bad boys under my command until late game.

Shrike is also extremely cheap, and highly versatile to boot. It can support you fleet with pilums/salamanders, fighters from CH and a nice array of PD. It can tank in a pinch with it's effective shield and huge flux pool. It can be aggressive and suicidal with a healty mix of sabots, HB and lasers. It can brawl, disable, pursue. Basically anything!
But the best thing about Shrike? You don't care if it actually blows up. 26k is a laughable price, and with an officer you can restore it over and over again, until you are ready to discard the old and purchase a new one.

[SCC]

I don't use Mora, less so because of any fault of its own, and more because I prefer specialised ships over hybrids.
Lasher is pretty useful, cheap and good. I don't worry much about losing them. It's obsoleted faster than midline or high-tech frigates, though. I'm not going to compare it to Tempest, because that's not fair at all.
Normal Shrike is kinda sad. Shrike (P), though, is decent enough that I don't feel bad when using it. It's essentially a bigger frigate.

[Igncom1]

Frankly there isn't a massive amount of overlap among the carriers.

Moras represent a couple of flight decks covered in armour and small ballistic mounts. Drovers represent a couple of flight decks in the smallest package available. Herons represent a couple of flight decks with a lean engine and decent shields. Capital carriers are a battlecarrier and super carrier respectively.

I frequently find myself stuck in proper 'line' style battles where space to run and hide is at a premium, so having the ability to at least dodge with shields like the heron, or tank damage with two medium missiles to return flux-less fire like the mora can be highly appreciated over the more vulnerable then the drover, even if more easily replaceable.

While it is a little OP starved, I feel like many of the more cost effective weapons and fighter wings in the game are just as suitable to the bigger battles as the elite equipment is. Broadswords never go out of style, and neither do machine-guns. And khopesh bombers are frankly as good for their cost as any cobra or dagger wing. No need to over do it, although piranha bombers are honestly still a little naff unless against laser pd anyway.

[Daynen]

These three ships are good at what they do and serve specific purposes that don't fit every playstyle but they all share two common problems:
1: None of them are essential to any fleet doctrine.
2: They can be bypassed if you can otherwise handle the game without them.

As you progress through the game you're naturally going to move up to ships with more PPT, better weapons and features that help your fleet stand up to the big boys and ships like these just get outclassed when you have the money and industry to support your playstyle.  If you get to cruisers and capitals and your fleet starts coming together without them, you never really miss them.  If you choose to favor them and the playstyle they represent, they do pay dividends...but you don't HAVE to.

The lasher is a knife in the gut of exposed targets.  It's like a rogue in D&D; once it sees an opening, BAM! Sneak attack.  It's alternatively a disgustingly mobile small point defense platform that can distract a LOT of missile fire as long as it doesn't take a solid hit.

The Shrike fills much the same role as a lasher, but with a bigger punch, the option to stand off for a bit longer and some ability to create its own opening before diving in for the kill.

The mora is a chunky carrier with the ability to either sit on the front line or use ultra long range bombers from relative safety since it won't fold like tissue paper if it's ambushed.

Like any ship, they can be pushed in the right direction with skills and mods and put out surprising performance but just like any ship, they can be ignored if they don't fit your fleet doctrine.  That's one of the great things about this game: you can do it your way.  Don't feel bad if you can't really fit them into your game plan and definitely don't be ashamed to like weird ships; I'm a devoted Atlas MkII fan so I know what it's like to favor the unpopular choice.

[Megas]

I use Mora as an (improvized) exploration ship.  It has significantly more OP than Heron, and it can use cheap but useful ballistics in it mounts, if I want to arm them.  As long as relatively basic fighters are used, I can squeeze stuff like Surveying Equipment or other campaign mods, while still having a functional carrier to kill enemies with.  For pure combat, I prefer Heron over Mora, but Heron is hideously OP starved (if I want to arm it with assault weapons, ITU, and necessary flux stats, along with fighters and Deck Crew), but Mora is not.

Lasher is one of many frigates that is obsolete by the time I finish Corvus for the first time.  If forced to use it early, it is either Safety Override or bust.  Without SO, it is too slow to engage against the cowardly AI.

Shrike is cheap and disposable, useful early in the game.  The P version is incredibly common, and is part of the junk destroyer trio I use all the way to midgame.  (Other two being Enforcers and Mules).  I treat Shrike-P as either a half Medusa or a Wolf with the flux stats to use its weapons.  Also has more PPT than frigates, while having the burn speed of one.  The hybrid the P version has means I do not need a rare Sabot pod to combo with an energy weapon.  My biggest two gripes with Shrikes is 1) their hideously low OP total and 2) they turn too slowly without Auxiliary Thrusters (which they cannot afford with their low OP) or combat skills, and Shrike flagship needs fast turning speed to hit-and-run with Plasma Burn effectively.

[Flying Birdy]

-The Mora

The only thing I can think of as a strength of the Mora is its durability. It can soak damage on the frontline better than any other carrier and be stuck in with any heavyweight cruisers and capitals one is fielding and hold its own. However....

That's exactly Mora's role. It's a tankier version of the Heron. It's role is to be a venture that has better fighter bays.  I just put on a few kinetics to drive away frigates from far, but otherwise, devote the bulk of OP to the Mora's fighters, and add reinforced bulkheads. Mora works much better than the Heron as a replaceable and reinforced bulkhead/cannon-fodder carrier.

And as for Mora's role versus the Legion, the Mora is cheaper and has 8 burn speed versus the Legion's 7. That means I can run add augmented engines and reinforced bulkheads, run it with speed 10 fleets, and toss the Mora into battle endlessly like cannon fodder that happens to also be a carrier.

Legion is too expensive for that. Legion is also much more impacted by a d-mods than Moras are. Legions need to have flux, armor, speed because it needs to fight with guns as well as fighters. Moras don't really use their guns to fight so they aren't as impacted by the majority of d-mods.

-The Lasher

A frigate with 5x light ballistic slots and AAF. A little feisty bulldog worth of trouble. I'm not going to even attempt to compare it to the Tempest, that's just unfair. Compare it to the Brawler.

The Brawler has no AAF and is 20 units slower than the lasher. In exchange, has across the board better flux stats, durability, and has medium mounts for weapons that can punch much harder against targets the light weapons on a Lasher couldn't scratch.

Lasher and Brawler serve distinctly different roles. Brawler offers support fire over long periods. It's medium mounts and improved flux stats makes it excellent for just lobbing kinetic rounds for 1000 range. Lasher, on the other hand, is supposed to go in aggressively and kill something within 10 seconds.

The brawler's better stats is still not enough for it to punch above its weight and burst fire down destroyers or cruisers using a chaingun. A SO lasher using an accelerated ammo feeder can temporarily punch far above its weight and go after destroyers or cruisers thanks to the greatly reduced flux costs of its weapons.