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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Ship tier list  (Read 32802 times)

Igncom1

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2021, 05:52:30 AM »

In smaller scale fights where frigates are still the best, the shepherd is far superior in my eyes then a venture in early cruiser fights.

The larger mining drones are kind of terrible, but those smaller mining drones to enemy frigates can be lethal!
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Serenitis

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2021, 07:27:00 AM »

One of the things that hurt Venture most was losing it's fighter bay and having brick drones locked in.
I'd like to see that capability return, even if it means losing the bay entirely and replacing it with built-in converted hangar.
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Impetus

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2021, 04:46:47 AM »

An Afflictor can be an amazing ship in player hands, depending on the player and the situation.  However, they also are very intolerant of player mistakes.  I wouldn't solely rely on it in an iron man run, for example.  And even player piloted afflictors can struggle against campaign high tech bounty/tri-tach fleets or redacted fleets.  So saying they're the best single ship in all combat situations (which is the typical meaning behind a SS rating in a combat context), is probably not correct.  There are counters, and those counters exist in actual campaign play.  And certainly for some things outside of combat, like trading, it is a sub-optimal ship.

TT bounties are primary targets for Afflictors - getting that Astral out of commission before fleets even meet counts for a lot, same for normally hard to catch Herons. Dooms are genuinely dangerous though, unphasing around them without having dropped speed to zero in advance is a potential instant death. Need to be very aware of their positions and reach.
Redacted are not Afflictor's bane either. You can't directly kill a Radiant with Reaper Afflictor in non-suicidal manner, but you can ALMOST kill it with Reaper Afflictor and then safely finish the job with AM Afflictor. Or just use AM from the start, though that would be slow vs up-skilled armor.

There are very few situations when AM Afflictor really can't do anything. As someone noted, Xyphos spam would be a problem, but you probably still could pick off ships that got too far from carriers. Afflictor is also NOT good at soloing high tier space stations - stations have near perfect overlapping 360 coverage, so there is often no safe attack trajectory that won't get you killed/badly damaged in 2 seconds needed to rephase. But in almost any fleet combat situation Afflictor can kill many times it's DP worth of ships.

Fleet composition-wise my goal is up to 5 Afflictors, a player capital (Conquest, Odyssey or some fast mod capital), officer-piloted capitals/cruisers + carriers, logistics. A few reserve player ships of other types optional.

Requiring logistic usefulness as part of SS rating would be silly imo - no ship can have both top tier combat performance and logistic profile.

Note that while afflictors are not an ideal option for soloing stations, they are very cheap compared to the usual station-busters, and if you're willing to save scum a bit reaper afflictors make for an exceptional early game method of removing stations. Stations periodically lower their shields even in the face of phase ships, and with a bit of finesse you can slip in a reaper barrage right under their shields and then take cover between modules, where only smaller weapons can get a bead on your ship while you recharge your phase coils. It's very finicky though.
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Locklave

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2021, 05:02:36 AM »

One of the things that hurt Venture most was losing it's fighter bay and having brick drones locked in.
I'd like to see that capability return, even if it means losing the bay entirely and replacing it with built-in converted hangar.

I started playing after the change, was the Venture too strong or something with fighters? I'd see that strong but not something that anyone would see as overpowered. Am I missing something, what was the thinking at the time?

I agree with that solution. 2 Borer drone wings instead of the fat ones would also be better.
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Igncom1

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2021, 05:07:10 AM »

The big mining drones could stand to be better
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Serenitis

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2021, 06:18:45 AM »

I started playing after the change, was the Venture too strong or something with fighters? I'd see that strong but not something that anyone would see as overpowered. Am I missing something, what was the thinking at the time?
Iirc it happened before the XIV ships were a thing - so 0.7ish?
There will have been a reason for it, but what it was eludes me at present. I haven't managed to find it in the patch notes yet either. (There's quite a few other things I can't find...)

The big mining drones could stand to be better
They could.
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Megas

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2021, 06:43:32 AM »

Venture was probably weakened either to fit the lore of a civilian mining ship or made purposefully weak for the base blueprint set you start with (or to serve as the pirate tutorial boss).  I liked the pre-0.8a Venture when it was a good warship and carrier hybrid.
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IonDragonX

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Re: Ship tier list
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2021, 06:51:25 AM »

The big mining drones could stand to be better
I modded them to have 2 mining lasers & and extra 500 range. +1 OP
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