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Author Topic: Military refit for civilian ships  (Read 1781 times)

Locklave

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Military refit for civilian ships
« on: December 17, 2020, 01:56:37 AM »

Not the module, an actual military refit. Like the hound and it's military counterpart. Something to fiddle with civilian ships and make their use life longer, not just fodder, something that would be make them meaningful considering the incoming SP changes. Help justify SP use on lesser ships.

I'd also like to see more military version of ships for sale. Venture for example screams for a military version because that would resolve the speed problem as well as free up space. Venture for all my complaining about it, I want to love, would be a solid ship if it had a militarized version. The same is true for many other civilian ships.

Think about it, more viable ship options. Make the junkier civ ships a good catch when you find that rarer military version, just like the military Hegemony Hound.
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Modo44

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 02:09:03 AM »

Most of these already exist. You will find many militarized civilian hulls in pirate and luddite fleets. I recommend you read the description for e.g. the Atlas MKII.
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SCC

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2020, 10:46:33 AM »

I consider logistic ships to be forgettable and using any more resources (including VRAM, because of sprites) for them than necessary to be a waste.

DatonKallandor

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2020, 03:25:10 PM »

It seems the civilian hull skills in the upcoming version are so good, having a civilian hull on a ship is considered a buff, so I would hold off on calling for military versions of civilian ships.
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Histidine

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2020, 04:29:35 PM »

Not quite the same thing, but next version there's a couple of hullmods for using civilian ships in combat, and a skill that works with those hullmods.
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Locklave

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2020, 05:04:43 PM »

Most of these already exist. You will find many militarized civilian hulls in pirate and luddite fleets. I recommend you read the description for e.g. the Atlas MKII.
Atlas MKII is a civilian ship, the description doesn't increase the ships base non battle speed or lower it's massive detection range shared by all civilian ships.

I'm also extremely familiar with Pirate and LP ships, they are not militarized because they have extra guns or w/e and most pirate ships are a downgrade of the normal version. LP ships are great but that's not what I want.

It seems the civilian hull skills in the upcoming version are so good, having a civilian hull on a ship is considered a buff, so I would hold off on calling for military versions of civilian ships.

I wonder if they will be worth it compared to the other skills. Without more specifics it's hard to judge.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 05:06:16 PM by Locklave »
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Modo44

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2020, 12:33:14 AM »

You are asking for ships that would contradict a core part of the Starsector lore. The game does not have these things because they are not feasible in the universe. The logistics ships are not designed to carry out military duties. Everything runs on static DRM-ed blueprints, not smart engineers redesigning things, which is why aftermarket refits are rare, and most often crappy. That is how it is supposed to be in this setting.
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Locklave

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2020, 01:54:41 PM »

You are asking for ships that would contradict a core part of the Starsector lore. The game does not have these things because they are not feasible in the universe. The logistics ships are not designed to carry out military duties. Everything runs on static DRM-ed blueprints, not smart engineers redesigning things, which is why aftermarket refits are rare, and most often crappy. That is how it is supposed to be in this setting.
Where did pirate versions come from then and LP ships? They rebuild existing ships and made new DRM blueprints. So not static and it is smart engineers redesigning things. That's a huge number of ships. The Hegemony Hound is a big upgrade on the original, new ship, new DRM. Most people would argue the Pirate Falcon is a better ship.

"aftermarket refits are rare" Except in the case of nearly every Pirate fleet and LP fleet.

So no, your "lore" excuse holds no water.

And BTW there are logistics ships that are military ships, it's already in the universe.
https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Apogee

And a "lore" breaking ship that is modified from a logistics ship
https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Condor

Please don't make more poorly thought out contrarian post thanks.
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Igncom1

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2020, 02:10:47 PM »

Gameplay vs Lore

"All condor-class light carriers started their service lives as Tarsus class freighters. The conversion process is an involved and complex affair and requires proper space dock facilities.

Some in the sector argue even the Domain, with all their technological know-how, relied on conversions of this type to make more efficient use of a merchant fleet during times of escalated hostilities. Others point out that it is unclear how ubiquitous this approach was - there could have been fleets of Condors roaming Domain space, but there is scarce evidence one way or the other. Such details were all lost in the Collapse.

Nowadays the Condor-class sees heavy service in the Sector as the conversion is, for many, the easiest way to procure carrier capability for their organization. Even with limited flight deck space, the Condor gets the job done, relying on its tough armor, excellent bulkhead strength, and a respectable (for a light carrier) weapons package."

You in game get the Condor as a blueprint to build. But it's always just a refitted Tarsus.

So these already exist. What with ships like the hegemony auxiliary Hound being a supped up freighter. All pirate and luddic ships being militarised civilian ships. And the Militarized Subsystems mod letting the player do it too.

But why bother? Small military ships aren't hard to acquire if you need something to fight. And armed freighters like the Mule and Venture can be modified to be far better anyway.
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Locklave

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2020, 02:28:47 PM »

Simple answer. I want more ship types viable longer.

Story Points are coming soon and it would be nice if you could use them on some of the lower end ships without feeling like you tossed your SPs in a fire.
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Igncom1

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2020, 02:41:12 PM »

Viable? But they are all viable.  ???

Depends what you are doing with them. Even a basic kite frigate can kick some serious ass when armed with a rail gun.

And as I took it story points are unlimited, but slow to earn. Sure you might not want to use them on a frigate like the hound or kite, but anything larger and it all depends on what you are doing with them.

Early till late game I'd say even with a fresh new colony you are mostly just travelling around trading, salvaging, fighting that you are going to have a fleet of makeshift ships anyway rather then some standard template paragon fleet. (Not that I'd reccormend tugging around a capital at almost any point as they are very cost ineffective.)

Getting a free mod install on a Venture for something like ECCM can really turn it into an even better missile spewing beast.

Late game capital ship fights we'll eventually figure out how to farm SP's anyway so that's just that. Can't get bogged down in 'too good to use' syndrome forever.
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Daynen

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2020, 10:59:11 PM »

Hey hey HEY now...I know I don't hear nobody talking mess about my Atlas mkII...I face down paragons in that thing and eat onslaughts for breakfast.
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Retry

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2020, 04:29:18 PM »

I'm really not understanding what's so controversial here.  There's absolutely nothing lore-breaking in introducing additional Auxiliary vessels.

There's at least 2 mods with Auxiliary Ventures.  MSM has those and also quite a few other assorted content.  HEA is more limited in scope to just Auxiliary ships, and was recently brought to 0.91a standards (by me).

I haven't installed MSM so IDK what its Venture is like, but the HEA venture has a bit better flux stats and maneuverability, and features a single modular fighter bay.
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Locklave

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Re: Military refit for civilian ships
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2020, 06:47:25 AM »

Hey hey HEY now...I know I don't hear nobody talking mess about my Atlas mkII...I face down paragons in that thing and eat onslaughts for breakfast.

a) Please share your loadout
b) Are they effective when not in player control with said loadout?

I kinda feel cheaty doing player control. Feels like I'm beating up a guy with broken legs.

I'm really not understanding what's so controversial here.  There's absolutely nothing lore-breaking in introducing additional Auxiliary vessels.

There's at least 2 mods with Auxiliary Ventures.  MSM has those and also quite a few other assorted content.  HEA is more limited in scope to just Auxiliary ships, and was recently brought to 0.91a standards (by me).

I haven't installed MSM so IDK what its Venture is like, but the HEA venture has a bit better flux stats and maneuverability, and features a single modular fighter bay.

Thank you, that was driving me nuts.

I really should consider mods, they look amazing, but in my head I really don't want the feedback I post to be influenced by mods.

I was the same with Rimworld till it went final 1.0. I remember posting about problems and getting into arguments with people only to find out they had been avoiding problems/limitations using mods and didn't even know the problem(s) existing in the core game. I haven't had that issue around here mind you, people seem good about separating Core and Mods in their minds. I think it might be the nature of those attracted to this sort of game experience.

Now I got like 50+ mods in Rimworld.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 07:40:28 AM by Locklave »
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