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Poll

How often would you put Large Missile(s) in the 2 Large Hardpoints on a Paragon, if they were turned into Synergy mounts?

Both hardpoints, most of the time
Both hardpoints, some of the time
Both hardpoints, rarely
One hardpoint, most of the time
One hardpoint, some of the time
One hardpoint, rarely
I would almost never put missiles in the hardpoints

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Author Topic: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets  (Read 4009 times)

FooF

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Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« on: December 01, 2020, 05:13:58 PM »

How often would you put Large Missile(s) in the 2 Large Turrets on a Paragon, if they were turned into Synergy mounts?

Paragons not having a true missile component (I consider 4x Small missiles to be an insignificant percentage of its total firepower) is undoubtedly by design, but how would Large Missiles fare on the lumbering behemoth? If the option were available, would you put Large Missiles on a Paragon in lieu of a Large Energy weapon? I'm just curious (i.e. this isn't a Suggestion).

Follow-up questions: Would the Paragon become unbalanced with this kind of change? Or, would changing the Large Turrets to Synergy have no practical effect on how you currently use the Paragon (beyond not being able to "downgrade" to Medium Energy with the switch to Large Synergy)?

The sticky part of all of this is the Fortress Shield: you could cancel the Fortress Shield, unload a whole barrage of missiles and then button-up again. That's a fairly neat trick that the player could probably abuse pretty well and the AI could not. However, given the deployment and logistical costs, does having that kind of (limited) burst damage paired with the Fortress Shield put the Paragon into OP territory?

Personally, even with the Fortress Shield abuse, I don't think I'd put Large Missiles on very often. Large Energy has some monster weapons in there and even though turreted Cyclones or Hammer Barrages would be nice, I generally prefer the sustained firepower over long, drawn-out battles. Also, having extra range on missiles isn't necessarily a boon since they have a greater distance to miss or get intercepted. But that's just me. What do you think? 
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pedro1_1

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 05:27:21 PM »

I would put Squalls almost always, it just gives AI Paragon the ability to actually overload stuff whitout using half of the flux of the ship to tank damage on shields.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2020, 05:34:23 PM »

I think may actual answer would be 'both turrets some of the time' lol.
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FooF

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2020, 05:43:58 PM »

I think may actual answer would be 'both turrets some of the time' lol.

Yeah, I didn't want to overdo the options but I did think about the whole "both turrets always/sometimes/rarely/never" choices.

@pedro1_1

Squalls are a good, especially paired with Tachyon Lances or HILs. Personally, I tend to use 2x Heavy Needlers in the Universals which bursts down shields pretty quick but I see the appeal of Squalls.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2020, 05:48:54 PM »

I think I'd be more likely to use synergy hard points TBH, not sure about the turrets.
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Megas

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2020, 06:35:06 PM »

Quote
How often would you put Large Missile(s) in the 2 Large Turrets on a Paragon, if they were turned into Synergy mounts?
Rarely or never.  Part of the point of Paragon is to snipe at enemies with guns.

If I am limited to two large missiles, I probably would use Conquest for homing missiles since it costs 40 instead of 60 DP.  On the other hand, Paragon probably could point and use Hammer Barrage or Cyclone Reaper like Legion14 if Paragon can use large missiles.
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TaLaR

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2020, 07:56:32 PM »

Never, Paragon has flux budget to use guns and Fortress Shield to go over budget when needed. It doesn't need to waste OP on limited flux-free weapons that won't last even half of it's PPT.

Paragon also is the slowest ship without ability to force engagements. If enemies were slightly smarter, they could simply stall till you run out of missiles, IF missiles were the deciding factor in particular engagement.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 10:44:21 PM by TaLaR »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 08:15:22 PM »

One of the most successful AI paragon loadouts I've tried leaves the two large hard points empty because 2 plasma canons cost a lot of flux, so I feel like I could add missiles to that build in a productive way. I don't think builds that use beams would ever want missiles. Maybe some crazy auto pulse + reaper or hammer builds could be effective. It would certainly be fun to test.
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RustyCabbage

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2020, 08:18:09 PM »

Whenever I tinker with Radiant builds, I always use the two large synergies for missiles, but they also have the advantage of four medium synergies to make missiles more worthwhile (though I think in general I only use two of them as missiles). On the other hand, I'm a huge missile advocate and even then the Paragon is the ship I'm least likely to use its small missiles on.

I'd probably run Locusts or something on them regardless. Makes dual Plasma Cannons a little more affordable. Though, LD3 and Gunnery Implants (which I don't usually design around) make a full gun Paragon a lot more tempting.

Goumindong

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2020, 08:35:43 PM »

Sometimes and most of the time but not always.

Double MIRV and plasma cannons/autopulse in the front. Or 4x tachyon.
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Maeleth

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2020, 01:38:33 AM »

Probably never. Paragon is a ship I'd bring to a long, drawn out fight with multiple rounds or while being heavily outnumbered. I need it to sit in a middle of my battle line and shoot at stuff for 20 minutes straight. Sustained damage is always better if you're fighting uphill, especially in hands of trigger happy AI.
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Megas

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2020, 05:39:49 AM »

One of the most successful AI paragon loadouts I've tried leaves the two large hard points empty because 2 plasma canons cost a lot of flux, so I feel like I could add missiles to that build in a productive way. I don't think builds that use beams would ever want missiles. Maybe some crazy auto pulse + reaper or hammer builds could be effective. It would certainly be fun to test.
I tried two plasma Paragon, and while it can work, it has problems finishing off fleeing Radiants (because Radiants love to skim away beyond plasma range when they start losing).  I like to have HIL or especially lances to punish Radiants that try to skim backwards when they start losing the flux war caused by plasma beatdown.

I guess missiles can be used to finish them off in this case, but range may be a problem for some missiles because beams are close to Conquest's Gauss Cannon range.
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ubuntufreakdragon

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2020, 08:24:59 AM »

If it were a hardpoint, than maybe, but the turrets are just needed to be energy to fight of smaller ships.
If it were a hardpoint I would move from Almost never sometimes on 1.
The two rear mediums are another interesting place for synergies.
And I would wish for more weapon groups.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 04:38:36 PM by ubuntufreakdragon »
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Daynen

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2020, 10:19:25 AM »

Can't say I'd use missiles on a Paragon really; it'd mean giving up quad autopulse lasers and well...sorry.  I have standards.

Seriously.  4 autopulse+extended mags.  Fighter swarms, frigates, capitals...it just does EVERYTHING.
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SCC

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Re: Poll: Paragon with Large Synergy Turrets
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 12:41:49 PM »

I think I'd rather trade medium energies for missiles. Large energy guns are too important and Paragon has tons of flux to burn.
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